“98.6” Blasphemy

C

Craig_PHX

Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
75
I know many people here have read “98.6” and built their survival kits off of its suggested list. I’m no expert but I have played with these things for several years now. I thought it would be fun to look at the items and see if we agree with them after having done our own testing with these items. Let me start by saying that Cody’s list is great and each item will serve you well. The question is what have you decided you did not really like or need to carry and what have you found that works even better?

Mora neck knife:
I’m not about to have anything around my neck if I don’t have to. My son was taking ASU REC340 Wilderness Survival and was trying to pry out some fat wood from a stump and broke the tip off his Mora. I have always felt unconfident on the thin tang and hollow wood or solid plastic handle. It cuts great, easy to sharpen and you can make sparks from a carbon steel version. I dumped it for an indestructible Cold Steel True Flight Thrower.

Freezer bags:
Good stuff

Tincture of iodine 2%:
Not happening! I have the MP1 tablets in my PSK and Polar Pur in my car PSK

Condom:
Not happening! They can not be filled by mortal man.

Regular Space blanket:
OK, but replaced by AMK heat sheet.

One roll dental floss:
Great stuff, but there is no reason to take the roll out of the container.

Colored surveyor’s tape:
Great Stuff!

Pea-less brightly colored plastic whistle:
Fox 40 is great!

Paraffin-coated, strike anywhere kitchen matches in brightly colored match safe:
I don’t need no stinking matches! If I have a mini Bic, a big ferro rod and treated cotton tinder why would I want to mess with frail matches?

Disposable butane lighter:
Mini Bic is great! Also have a flame modified lighter in my PSK and an extra mini Bic.

Magnesium-block fire starter with hacksaw blade scraper:
Hate it! The magnesium flakes are hard to scrape off, they go all over the place, the wind blows them around, it dulls your knife, and you just get a 2 second flash! I have a County Comm Metal Match, MagFire Pro, and pulled Strike Force ferro rod. Keep the “Pink Floyd majesty!”

6 to 8 cotton balls saturated with PJ:
Keep the slime balls! I’ll take my (15 each) two baggies of Coghlan’s emergency Tinder.

Credit card size magnifying lens:
Good stuff! Just don’t try to actually start a fire with one.

AA Flashlight:
The AA Maglight was the standard utility light for a long time. Photon covert, CMG Infinity Ultra, SureFire C2, and Petzl Tikka XP

Extra batteries:
Roger!

Extra carbon-steel knife with sheath:
Maybe, but if you have extra ferro rods why worry about carbon steel for sparks? I do have a Carbon V steel knife but I don’t plan to try to get sparks off of it. You can’t beat the utility of a Leatherman Wave or Charge Ti and a good fixed blade knife. A separate folding saw is light and a great tool!

Clear plastic drinking tube:
OK

Collapsible, 1-2 gallon water container:
Good stuff!

Two 55 gallon barrel liners:
Why not use clear bags that can be used for transpiration?

Heavy-duty space blanket:
I’ve tried the HD Space Blanket and the one with a hood. They are good for reflecting heat but not mush protection if you get stuck out in a cold rain. The Coghlan’s Survival Bag can be modified to be a water and wind proof mini-tent that can be set up in a few minutes. It can also provide immediate shelter if you step into it, sit down, and pull the top abound your head.

Wool or synthetic stocking cap:
Roger!

Cotton bandana:
Roger!

100 feet of 550 parachute cord:
Yes it is wonderful stuff and I have taken it apart and played with it. I don’t like it! I would rather have normal braided nylon cord in the size of parachute cord. I also have thin cord that is also braided nylon. For small stuff I have dental floss. Why would I want to “stress” over cutting my parachute cord and wondering if I am going to need an inner strand longer than I just cut the cord. Just carry the three different sizes. Also the cord needs to be wrapped around something or you will have a big tangled mess when you try to use it.

3” x 5” glass, sightable signal mirror with duct taped foam pouch:
I have one and it works better than anything else out there. But, if you plan to signal aircraft you will have about 30 second to deploy your signal mirror and flash the plane. That means you need to keep the mirror on you at all times. The 3”x5” is too heavy to wear around your neck! The 2”x3” glass signal mirror is a comfortable size to wear for extended periods. The plastic mirrors do NOT reflect anywhere near as much light as glass. The duct taped pouch does a wonderful job of protecting the glass. It is very thick tough glass. It is not some frail thing that can break easily! The Ritter PSP mirror works as good as the glass mirror of the same size. The StarFlash plastic mirror dose not work very well! It does not reflect nearly as much light as a glass mirror and the fireball aimer is too bright and make it very hard to see past to see the target and aim. But hey; it floats and it is unbreakable!

Homemade first aid kit:
Maybe! Yes you can see in, but a Ziploc bag is a wimpy container for frequent use. I prefer a store bought first-aid kit that I can add to.

Uncle Peppy’s patented power pack stack:
Ingredients taken off the market.

7.5 topo map and compass:
Roger!

Two candy or snack bars:
Roger!

Duct Tape:
Don’t leave home without it!

Sawer Extractor Kit:
I have one but no longer keep it in my PSK. All the survival and outdoor classes I have taken suggest NOT using any extraction device if bitten or stung

Nalgine bottle wrapped in duct tape:
OK, but a Camelbak is better for staying hydrated and everyone I know that has one tends to just keep it on when they are outdoors. They are very comfortable and you tend to forget you have it on. A heavy fanny pack is uncomfortable to wear for extended periods. A Camelbak is a much better way to carry your PSK.

What is missing?
An extra knife!
Large clear plastic bags for transpiration, to get water.
A knife sharpener, a credit size diamond plate or X style ceramic sharpener
A $.99 poncho (you can use the trash bag but then you can‘t use it for other things)
36” x 36” sheet of aluminum foil or some container to boil water
A small saw can be a wonderful thing
Leather work gloves (keep your hands warm and protected)
Some fatwood could really help
A small pair of binoculars could also really help
 
Craig_PHX said:
and was trying to pry out some fat wood from a stump and broke the tip off his Mora.
Click to expand...

"Always remember, a knife is the most expensive and least effective prybar you will ever own".
 
There are many types of Mora's and of that style of knives, some of them are really weak in the tip due to laminates and distal taper, some are much stronger. The forged carbon ones Ragnar sells are robust for their stock thickness, but you will want to step up to at least something like 3/16" without a lot of tip taper for robust digging in woods.

As for cost, the Mora's are actually cheaper than most decent prybars, not more expensive, and for wood working they are much more effective. Try to use an ordinary wrecking bar for the type of prying and splitting Mears illustrates with his knife in his Bushcraft series and see if that statement holds. The only reason to grind a knife with that low of a sabre grind is to make it a more rigid prybar, it isn't so it actually cuts optimally.

Matches have some advantages in that they are easier to light in some respects, can be used on handed, and unlike lighters you don't need to hold pressure on them after they are lit. Try using a ferro rod with one hand, and/or with an injured hand, and/or with a really cold hand.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

My son was using a KJ Eriksson 510 from Ragnar at Ragweed Forge. He is thinking of getting a CS SRK to replace the Mora. The new Cold Steel video "Solid Proof" shows the SRK being stabbed into wood and pried sideways with no harm to the tip. He thinks "Now were talking." I had an SRK and gave it away. The long choil takes the edge too far away from the handle for utility work. My point was that when you get stressed you do stupid things with a knife. It is best to have a knife stronger than you need. I know I get stupid when I feel desperate. I think we (guys), sometimes, have a tendency to try to muscle our way out of things when they are not going the way we want.

My one-handed ferro rod technique is to stick a fixed blade knife in the ground where I want the fire. Then I scrape the ferro rod against the knife blade. If you can hold a match, you can pull a ferro rod against a knife blade.

Please give it a try and tell us what you think.

Thanks!
 
Craig_PHX said:
My one-handed ferro rod technique is to stick a fixed blade knife in the ground where I want the fire. Then I scrape the ferro rod against the knife blade.
Click to expand...

Cool idea!
 
The main problem is weather, wind/rain where you have to protect the tinder and often light it inside of a little wooden shelter built around the fire. With a match, the initial flash burn is strong enough to take even strong wind, and lets you get the flame inside, wind which will blow out lighters readily. You can do similar with a ferro rod, but it is usually more difficult, jamming the knife fixed is a nice idea. In general for that type of more rugged use the Mora's don't do well, as they are just too thin, usually 1/16"-1/8", you might want to consider a small blade from Ranger Knives. I agree with choils on that length usually, there is too much leverage lost if you have to work far out on the blade.

-Cliff
 
Wouldn't storm matches be helpful here? We used them when I was a kid, and they sure worked. You can light them up and keep them burning in the worst weather.

Something like this, although the ones I used as a kid had light-colored tips.
 
Great post, Craig.

I see no blasphemy here. Cody himself advocates rewiewing the kit, changing it, and making it YOURS.

Your changes are all interesting.

David
 
Agreed on a few points.

Get rid of the Mora and get something a little more robust, chances are the fine carving the blade offers is likely the last thing on your mind. You need more of a tool as as much as I hate to say it, you need a prybar type or at least a full length/width tang. Personally I would go with full convex.

Condom: Agreed too fragile, too hard to fill and ill suited to impaired motor skills.

Space blanket : OK for 1 use but super prone to damage. Good reflecting properties though for signalling, instead of a mirror that is fragile, carry one of these when you hear the plane and waft it about.

CC lens : Phooey, unless you live in Arizona there isnt enough depth to the lens to get enough heat to start a fire. Better to get a real glass lens and look after it by putting it in a a tough plastic case.

Matches : I like them, as mentioned motor controls and not such and issue and you can just dump it under the tinder bundle. The live flame doesnt really need that much tinder anyway, thin strips off a branch are enough to readily catch the flame.

Food & Drink. Definately, I would go with Salami in those bomb proof plastic wrappings and some hard boiled sweets for treats. Better calories from the salami than from just sugar. You can also use the liberal fat and flavour that comes off it to enhance or hide the taste of other stuff you have either found or killed.

I prefer the Bottles, to a Camel Pack as they seem more versitile in capturing water.

Magblock. There is a technique to using these and you can get a pile of nice thin long shavings easily if you know how. It is afterall a one-stop firemaking kit that is waterproof and offers hundreds of potential fires.

Cord: Totally agree, get 100m of dental floss and 3mm climbing cord instead, much better strength wise, more resistant to abrasion, less elastic, coils better, not much more per foot.

I tested one of the strands of cord at home on a static hold, they are very dissapointing, less than 15KG (56 pounds) which when you consider that all 7 of them should support about 550 which is just shy of 400 pounds for the 7 together and even if you gave the braided nylon sheath a rating of 100 pounds you still wouldnt get 550.

You can also self rescue yourself with the climbing utility cord, I might do it with parachute cord, but I would be crapping myself the whole time I did it.
 
Try this, if you will. Take a strike-anywhere match and wrap the top 1" tightly with a 1x4" stip of newsprint then 1x4" strip of Seran Wrap type plastic (all dimensions approximate). A swatch of duct tape holds the "additions" on the match. THEN, dip the whole thing in paraffin.

You can't get nearly as many in a match safe as regular SA matches, and they do not burn as violently as a NATO-approved match, but they burn a looooooong time.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
The main problem is weather, wind/rain where you have to protect the tinder and often light it inside of a little wooden shelter built around the fire. With a match, the initial flash burn is strong enough to take even strong wind, and lets you get the flame inside, wind which will blow out lighters readily. You can do similar with a ferro rod, but it is usually more difficult, jamming the knife fixed is a nice idea.
-Cliff
Click to expand...

You are good sir!

I have another technique for fire starting without matches. You knew it was coming! :D

I use Coghlan's Emergency Tinder. It is similar to a PJ cotton ball. It is made of tacky wax and cotton. I tear it in half and wrap one half around the end of a small stick and put the other half with the tinder. Then I put the stick where it is easy to light with a ferro rod and use it as a big match to light my fire lay. This allows the fire to be lit without disturbing the fire lay. Give it a try with a PJ cotton ball. I'm sure it work the same as the Coghlan's Emergency Tinder. I developed this idea when my, then, 8 year old twins were trying to make a fire at a survival class put on by Phoenix Park system.
 
Keep in mind that Cody's list isn't designed to be the "ultimate" in gear but rather an effective and *inexpensive* solution.

Also... filling a condom is easy. It just takes a tiny amount of creativity. If I was carrying Cody's kit I would plug the hole in the bottom of the mora sheath with my thumb and use the sheath as a "cup" to scoop water into the condom. If my condom is in an Altoids tin then the tin is my "scoop". It's amazingly easy to fill a condom. How about a shoe or a hat? Even a properly folded piece of paper, bark, a leaf, a piece of cloth, or any other number of things can be used. You just have to use your #1 survival tool. The one attached to the end of your neck. :)
 
Instead of a condom, I keep a couple of baby milk bottle liners. (For my pack, anyway)
 
I wonder Brian actually did all that he suggested? DON"T suggest something you have not tried. If condoms fill poorly with a high flow indoor tap (tried), they are not going to fill well from a Mora sheath or piece of paper.

The first half of the book is good but I built the survival kit as he suggested and it was heavy and bulky. My current kit weighs about 1 pound in a very slim fanny pack.

Mag block, condom, and cotton balls are out...I use firesteels, zip-lock bags, and cotton/wax earplugs from the dollar store. Mora is a fine knife if you actually know how to use a knife. Nothing less than a 1 quart container for 1 quart purification tablets for me than you very much.

Nalgene bottle is a must but extra water can be carried in lesser containers. Tape on a bottle is just dumb! You need to be able to dip your canteen if need be and tape will only get wet. Just wrap it around a wood dowel or piece of card depending on the shape that you need.

"How to Build The Perfect Survival Kit" is a much better book. Everything from mini kits to large kits are in it along with several options for each item, unlike Cody's kit.
 
Well I have both Cody's book and the survival kit book by McCann and enjoyed both but Cody has way more outdoor experience.

McCann is a gee whiz gadget guy which I really enjoy but for actually living outside Cody is the man.

Cody has done a lot of experiential work and the stamp of Kochanski is there too.

These boys are long on Native American type techniques that emphisize depending on skill not equipment.

As Mors says...the more you know the less you need.
 
I have spent time in the field with Cody and he is the real deal -- unlike a lot of others who write about survival and/or survival kits; he does live (test) it. He also associates himself with the most respected folks within the Primitive Living arena. By the way, I have never seen anyone wield a knife as good as he does - and his Mora is worn down a lot from use. I think he said he has had it for 10 years or something like that. He is also the first to say go with works for you.

"And as far as to each his own goes," I agree about the condom, it is a bitch to fill. I prefer oven bags I premark by quart. I also like the micro pur tabs, especially for taste, but I do carry iodine as it also works as an antiseptic and you can treat a lot of water if you run out or lose your tabs. I have tried camelbacks and they are great for the day, but if you have to refill from a natural water source, not near as easy as a bottle. I prefer the Nalgene bottles and do keep one wrapped with duct tape if is a long trip, water hasn't bother it yet. I don't like wearing a back pack either, so if I walk away from camp it is easier to just carry the bottle nestled in a Ti cup in a cordura carrier.

Regarding the plasitc lens, I do carry one in my wallet. It does take a little practice to get fire, especially with natural materials. As you all know, it takes heat, oxygen, and fuel to make a fire. I think we tend to get caught up in the inginition so much that a lot of times we forget about the other 2/3 of the equation. Making a good tinder bundle and have it properly ventilated is more critical to creating fire with a lens that match. When I remember the lens is just a 1/3 of my equation, I tend to be more successful. For the space it takes up and the $1.50 it cost me, I have it as an additional back-up.

Could go on and on about other things, but we each have different skill levels and practical knowledge. What you carry I may not know how to use, at least not in multiple ways like you might and vice versa. Best of luck to everyone.
 
I'm hesitant to post this because I know people get pissed off when you say certain things...I don't post much any more but I read a lot, primarily in this sub-forum and I always find all of you people to be extremely knowledgeable and resourceful when it comes to improvising things, etc.

(That was the butter, here comes the knife...)

The Sawyer Extractor is a lot like Quick-Clot, there are going to be people that don't like it or don't understand it or whatever. Some of those people actually teach!

If you live in a Detroit suburb and you chop half of your foot of with an axe or mangle it under a lawnmower, it's really not necessary under every day conditions to pour Quick Clot on it. You have excellent trauma care, apply direct pressure, get help.

If the help is gone because of some horrible disaster or you are in a place where you will not be able to receive help with 15-30 minutes, hey, you might have to use the Quick-Clot.

The Sawyer Extractor, as I said above, is a lot like that. If you have a vehicle or someone that can go get help for you, hell, in today's world, you can use a wireless phone to call in a chopper if you get bit up in some canyon, etc. In those cases, you really wouldn't have to use it.

I can understand the warnings against the old "Cut and Suck" methods, it opens good tissue up to the venom, etc. That really shouldn't be an issue with the Sawyer unless you are punching the damned thing into the area where you have been bitten, the pocket of venom...

A deliberate push down which is firm and then activation of the device is either going to bring some venom out from the hole or holes or it is not. Any venom that you get out is a good thing.

To me, it is only to be used in an extreme situation where you cannot get any help for hours or at all and in those cases, I think it's valuable regardless of what anyone says. If you don't have one and you get a hot shot from a rattlesnake and you can't get out of the area and no one can get to you, in a few hours it is quite likely you will be too incapacitated to do anything else to save yourself and you're probably going to die. Even if there was some risk of damaging surrounding tissue with the Sawyer, it is better to have some necrotic tissue that needs to be excised or even amputation instead of dying when you didn't have to.

Like I said, we have helicopters and vehicles and a host of other things that should be used first, but when that doesn't work out, I think you should have one of these on hand and use it wisely.
 
Any of you wilderness guys ever thought about a film canister and a bit of black powder ?
I reckon not.
Come on down to Da Swamp...
 
Gringogunsmith said:
Any of you wilderness guys ever thought about a film canister and a bit of black powder ?
I reckon not.
Come on down to Da Swamp...
Click to expand...

You "reckon" wrong. Black powder, conventional propellant, and a "hot sauce" bottle of "Coleman Fuel" are all part of my display of "fire-starting" materials.
 
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