01, A2, D2 Steels Are Mediocre!

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DennisStrickland said:
i find it interesting that anyone would credit crucible as the ultimate authority on metallurgy . the thread is using a catagorical imperative as a point of departure, as all deductive reasoning dictates this an invalid argument if you are basing your conclusions from aristotelian logic. as most formites are aware even some of the most pedestrian alloys can be tweaked to perform as well & sometimes surpass the super alphabet alloys. we hardly need mention busse, jody muller [sniper blades], ed fowler, bill burke & bill siegle among others.
dennis
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You just botched philosophy 101.

Its using a inductive premise where 1 steel is good for 1 job therefore all jobs are best done by the 1 steel. Also what scene are you using a 'catagorical imperative' I remember that as a term in morality/ethics.
 
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BabyJWuu said:
You are paying for 90% ESEE hype and 10% for the knife :eek:

Okay, I admit some trolling in that statement :D

Cordially,

:jerkit:BabyJWuu :jerkit:
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ARE YOU KIDDING ME... Let me guess, you don't own one or only had one for about a day. TROLL :jerkit:
 
BabyJWuu said:
Finally, a poster with an unbiased and completely logical response based on the facts....much appreciated :thumbup:


Please try not be biased in our discussion and keep an open mind, a closed mind is an empty mind :thumbdn:

I will get off my soap-box now :)

Cordially,

BabyJWuu :D
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Your mind is apparently so open that the brain fell out. There was absolutely no bias or lack of logic in anything that I posted in response to the flawed logic of your original post.

I really don't have a dog in this fight...but you don't even have a dog.
 
BabyJWuu may be trolling, and drawing naive Newbie conclusions, but the article he cites is excellent.

It IS written by Crucible to advocate their products in the Tool & Die world, but the article is loaded with relevance for knives. You just have to put the content into perspective.

Starting out with the old school Tool & Die steels, A2, D2 and O1, you have the material for a very good basic knife blade if other elements come together in the finished knife. These older tool & die steels have indeed been surpassed by modern steels in general, but to make a knife blade from a workhorse older tool & die steel is to have chosen an excellent steel COMPARED with the cr@p steels that are purveyed to the general pubic... er... puBlic, i.e. cheap steels that can be blanked by the hundreds and who's working hardness is in the Rc mid 50's. Plenty of cr@p out there, but it's not the stuff people on this forum typically buy.

Soapbox Alert, but only 1 sentence: An excellent tool steel can be given a haphazard or inappropriate heat treat, an inappropriate grind, a crappy handle, or other mistakes, ruining the chance at a very good knife.

My Point: Dismissing an article on industrial tool & die steels as irrelevant to knife making just because a newbie/troll posted it is to miss a shot at a summary education on today's top steels and how they compare.

http://www.crucibleservice.com/eselector/general/generalpart1.html

Sidebar: I dig Dozier's blade, handle, and kydex sheath designs. I wish he'd use CPM 3V for bigger knives, and S90V or 110V for smaller knives, but I continue to buy D2 knives from Bob and others. More knives is better... more knives is better... more knives is better...
 
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I totally agree. If you refer to the High Endedness Scale of Ultimate Crazy Knife Stuff (aka, the "HE SUCKS" metric), BabyJWuu is right on the money. :thumbup:
 
I'm not sure what you mean about the price. The amount of tool steel used in knife production is a small fraction of that used in other industries. The use of a steel in one price level of knives does not affect its use in others. Randall uses 440B in their stainless models, not considered a premium steel.
 
elkins45 said:
Probably because they think it's a better knife steel...but I'll bet they tested it by making knives and not by making cupping punches or embossing stamps.
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Like O1, A2, and D2? These are not cutlery steels by design either. There really aren't that many of those.
 
hardheart said:
Like O1, A2, and D2? These are not cutlery steels by design either. There really aren't that many of those.
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I don't understand your reply.

I know they aren't cutlery steels by design, but they have been tested for suitability for that purpose by a variety of people over the years using testing criteria suitable for testing knives. Those were presumably different criteria than those used by people evaluating them for making swaging dies or pin punches. Just because a steel makes a good chisel doesn't automatically imply it will make a good knife. That has been my only point through all of this thread.
 
Looks like this will probably end up as another INFI thread, just as well, the OP put absolutely no thought behind it anyway...
 
Absolutely, Elkins. Such as Crucible's ranking of 9V, where it's attainable hardness is a bit low compared to the wear resistance. It is not something for the average knife user, and also really not something for the aficionado.

I am only posting to support the idea that there are 'better' steels out there, depending on user preference. The OP presented such an antagonistic statement that the backlash was washing out this fact.

But if it gets people to try out some 'old school' tool steel blades, there's nothing wrong with that :)
 
I am so relieved that most of my knives qualify as super steels. I have 2 Severtechs is that crappy A2, I guess I need to dump those in the trash
 
It is always better to discuss the topic than to discuss each other. Cries of "Troll, troll!" may be accurate, but they are not helpful. This thread is in the General Knife Discussion, not Whine & Cheese.

I will reopen it later, after you've had a chance to calm down.

DNFTT.
 
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