10 things the recent D.C. power outage taught us about a real, large-scale collapse

It all leads up to an ad that preys on peoples' fears. People should have some supllies to get them through the first few days of any disaster, no matter what the scenario. What happened to common sense?
 
Ahh crap.... that means i`m an "enlightened anarchist" :grumpy:
How else can i justify buying knives and guns and supplies to my wife :D
I just figured one day all the crap i learned and all the crap i have stacked and stored up would come in usefull.

I guess i`ll unpack my "go bag".... wait! what?? we were ALL planning on going to "the woods" to survive.... ahh crap!
 
There's one thing that I think people are getting confused here: Yes, *humanity* always survives... but *societies* collapse all the time. And when they collapse, many die and many suffer in horrid misery for years or decades. Will humanity always survive? Yes, until the Earth crashes into the Sun's surface in a few billion years. Will our society always survive? No. No society lasts forever. Our society will collapse one day, too, just like the Roman Empire. And when it does, it is going to be horror. And we don't know when that moment will come. There are respectable (non-fruitcake) academics who believe it will happen sooner rather than later.

Remember, in 1988 Yugoslavia was considered a very successful country that was held up as a model of a harmonious, multi-ethnic state. On June 26, 1991, the first shot was fired after Slovenia seceded, and a decade of ethnic-cleansing and horrible warfare followed that killed 150,000 people. Could it happen here? I'm sure the Yugoslavs asked themselves the same question on June 25, 1991. I believe it could indeed happen here. And it *will* happen here, although the circumstances will be different. It's just a question of when. Will the grid collapse? The grid will eventually not only collapse, it will cease to exist, and we'll go backwards in history. Remember that the enlightened Roman Empire was followed by the Dark Ages. Societies don't always progress... sometimes they regress.
 
RickJ said:
I read somewhere that if the system shut down for just three days, say no fuel for vehicles, all the stores would be empty in 3 days. In other words, every three days all the stores need to be re stocked and if not there will be empty shelves. So if we have a problem where the nation has lost it's power for like a month, all hell will break loose...
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I asked the manager of our local Safeway store a few years ago about the "72-hour empty store thing". He confirmed this. He said the outer ring of the store(fresh foods, non-frozen meats, diary, milk, cheese) would be done in 24 hours. The rest would be gone 48 hours after that. He is a lifelong friend that I trust(we were in each others weddings).
My father asked the same to the manager of his favorite store and got the same answer.
The info helped me plan for my family.
If there is gonna be a short term crisis due to flood, power, etc. we have plenty of stored food and basics on-hand to not have to participate in the rush/panic that does happen during these events.
We also live in a neighborhood that gets along with each other and already help one another with things(mowing lawns for each other when someone is on vacation, picking up the mail, etc.)
 
So then you just need skills that are such to encourage other people to keep you alive. If we revert to a feudal system, farmers are going to become kings! Knowledge will still be very important, just it will be a type of knowledge most folks don't have any more.

I make sure I'm looked after for the very likely 72 hour events. the End Of The World As We Know It, will just have to take care of itself. I've got bigger problems to worry about.
 
gadgetgeek said:
If we revert to a feudal system, farmers are going to become kings!
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If they can hold their land and animals.

gadgetgeek said:
I make sure I'm looked after for the very likely 72 hour events. the End Of The World As We Know It, will just have to take care of itself. I've got bigger problems to worry about.
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Very true. No matter how skilled someone is, we will all die someday, like it or not.
 
There is actually a logical progression of which items will disappear from store shelves first. Refridgerated and frozen items cannot be sold after a certain number of hours without cooling (power outage). Our stores allowed a few people at a time in to shop with flashlights, but we had to have cash. Batteries and flashlights, charcoal and lighter fluid and matches were the first to go. Bread and canned meats followed. It didn't take long for the shelves to become bare except for a few oddball items. But really, it doesn't take much prep to be able to sit at home for a week or two with no power. Cases of bottled water fit nicely under a bed. Cases of canned foods do well enough in the back of a closet. A few bags of charcoal do well in an outside trash can. If you have to, a five gallon bucket lined with a trash bag makes a usable toilet. Six stacked empty buckets don't take up much room. And you do have plenty of batteries, flashlights and candles, maybe an oil lamp or two, right? It isn't a major investment of money, time or energy to be prepared to bug in for a while. And "heading for the hills" isn't very realistic, IMHO. At least not in what I would consider the most likely disruptive events.
 
I also don't feel "heading for the hills" is practical. You'll just starve. Most of the game will be shot within a few weeks. There are simply too many people. Preparations have to be made at your home base or if you have a cabin in the woods/country, then there perhaps.

It doesn't take much food or preparation for two to survive very nicely for two weeks. If you have a family, then you plan for more bodies. Medical issues... plan for those as best you can. I use a lot of bottled water and keep a fair amount on hand. But you never know when something might happen and you are not at all prepared as you might normally be.

People will help each other to an extent. We have not lost all humanity yet.

The time frame for grocery stores is about what I thought. Food warehouses are a different matter. Just think how much good stuff there might be at a Walmart warehouse??

The biggest pain in the butt will be loss of power for weeks on end. Depending on the time of the year and the climate you live in, one needs to try to plan somewhat. Few of us will have gasoline stored in sufficient quantities for an extended period where generators might be used for a while.
 
Sodak, my thought with farmers was that there would be more than a few people willing to trade labor for food. Its possible that each farm would become its own little fiefdom. People raiding for food is more likely, but I like to think the best of folks.


yeah, we're doomed. Have fun!
 
I agree the article starts off a bit alarmist. But was glad to see at the end ‘solutions’ were offered. (where how to get educated, learn skills that might help etc). I spent 25 years in the Alaska wilderness, sometimes 8 months without seeing anyone. I have throughout my life taken visitors out to the wilds, and seen some amazing freak out reactions to ‘reality’. It’s easy to focus on them as they stand out. Yet other stories of bravery- survival - success.
I believe if we make the decision to live in a city we accept certain advantages, and must balance that with certain prices to pay. If a person hears this story and is worried, one solution is to not live in the city , not dependant on the grid, and go live remote, enjoy those advantages, accept it’s disadvantages, and possibly be a happier person. We are all going to die. We cannot escape that. It might be a grizzly bear attack, or a failed electrical grid. Choose your poison. A hole in the ozone layer may get us all first.
The village of 500 where I live has preparedness meetings. Where we discuss what we might do if there is an earthquake, a major fire, a failed electrical grid. Without panic we discuss where we might all gather, who has required skills, and how we may all stay in touch (like ham radio with batteries) . We have maps – ways to get hold of remote people, food stockpiled, a source of water figured out. As suggested in the article and by comments, farmers, the more remote, appear to have more common sense in such matters. Meaning if you are really worried get out of the city where it might be safer!
My opinion is, we never know what direction survival will come from. I once had a homestead with everything I needed for the rest of my life stockpiled. I was pretty smug about it. Till a forest fire wiped it all out. It was civilization that saved my bacon. Go figure. .Thus, in a way, the possibility of cell phones going out, ways to keep food preserved, is not much different than any other disaster mankind has faced, earthquakes floods fires volcanoes etc etc. Again, we can choose which of these things freaks us out and live someplace where some particular disaster will be less likely to happen. Where do you want to take your chance and make your stand?
The assumption seems to be , the worst thing that can happen is we might die. When in fact there are worse things then death, such as never living. I’d think, instead of trying to get others interested in something they are not interested in, it might be wiser to realize we have an interest, and seek out like minded people who agree, and go be with them. (?) That has been my personal answer in life and so… here I am. Where dog teams are still a method of transportation, and people still dry fish , put up their gardens for winter and heat with wood. Some would rather die than live like a savage. It’s thus a complicated debate.
 
This is the way I want to prepare when I can afford it, I keep buying to many knives!

1. Prepare for 3 days, Food,Water, Candles, Batteries
2. Then plan for a 7 Day event- In other words keep adding to my stocks
3. Then Plan for 10 days, When you get around this time frame things change, example how to get rid of your trash, Burn site, just one of the things you will have to think about for a longer time frame.
4. Longer than 10 days, may need some kind of long term water supply like a hand pump well, alot of long term freeze dried food.

Bottom line, we all can prep for about 10 days without alot of issues but if we as a nation or community is shut down much longer than that, only the really prepared will do well.

And if it is something really bad like a EMP weapon that knocks out our entire grid, then the rich with all their gold will be as poor as the poorest person, but the guy that has basic long term needs met, like water and long term food stored and guns and ammo to protect it, will do far better than the rich guy settin on alot of gold. I guess I think it is better to invest in basic needs stuff than gold.
 
One aspect I think we forget when discussing longer term preparedness… is that ability to hang on to what we have. A guy I knew put it “I’ll just take it away for people like you” Others will harvest your garden, raid your stash if they can. Burning looting lawlessness. We have seen it in past history when people begin to get desperate.
My thought would be in such a situation it is hard to predict who will survive. I wonder if just plain adaptability will be a determining factor. Those who know how to catch, and are willing to eat pigeons, recognize edible plants, have knowledge of various ways of preserving the food, creating heat and light, have an ability to fix things that break . Mentally not panic. Physical health is important.
Many do not want to survive a world like that. Hopefully it would be temporary. The rich may in fact have an edge, that gold might buy the ability to travel, to bribe, to pay for protection. People might believe it will end and we will get back to a money system and gold when this is all straightened out. In that believe they may still value gold. In other natural disasters it was not food being stolen, but stores broken into and wide screen TVs run off with. Those with money- power may be the last among us to feel the pinch. What happed to the rich during katrina?
I do think a knife fits in here someplace ‘a man with a knife is master of a thousand tasks’
 
I will try to survive regardless, but many would simply give up and stand in lines for a bottle of water or what ever. You do what you have to do. Potentially defending your "stuff" is part of the deal.

What water filtering/purifying equipment would be appropriate for say a family of four with access to surface water or suspect well water?

Gosh, I would miss the internet and the ease of communication if the worst happened.
 
22-rimfire there are a few high capacity gravity fed filter systems on the market at the moment. Although it is a small market, so they are pretty basic. i would say a good plan would be to have the ability to use "dirty" water for tasks like toilet flushing and the like. basic filtration/treatment for washing people/cloths etc, and dedicated potable water containers. my family got sick in PNG just because we didn't have a good way to keep track of when the water jug had been filled, and if it had been boiled yet. just a night of the runny-guts, but it could have been worse. (I was only 6 or so) Depending on your location, you might want to find out what you can get for water testing, at least stuff like ph, hardness, I don't know what else is available, but at home testing could be good.
 
Magnaminous_G said:
Two points in the article that jumped out at me:

"When the power goes out to a local hospital, there might be a temporary backup generator, but even that generator relies on the delivery of fuel. The delivery of generator fuel, in turn, relies on the availability of diesel truck fuel, which depends on petroleum refineries functioning, which in turn depends on the power grid staying up and highways remaining navigable. This is a complex chain of dependencies which can suffer disruptions or even total failure without warning."

True dat. I was in DC on 9/11, and I remember the panic. I remember the streets of downtown DC packed with cars that couldn't move, the students and feds desperately trying to get a hold of relatives because the cell phone system was overloaded, etc. It can all come crashing down in a heartbeat, and it's more fragile than most people know.

"If the power grid goes down across planet Earth for just one year, 90% of human civilization will perish, and along with it all the DVDs, Nike shoes and designer bling as well. Even the entire fictional construct of society's laws and banking system will cease to exist."

It amazes me how some people think there's anything real or authoritative about laws, social rules, rank, etc. They are all just ideas created by men just like you and me. A deed to a house is just a piece of paper. A law is just a piece of paper. If you take out a pen and paper and make your own deeds and laws, who's to say which one is legitimate? Just because our society has grand, impressive halls of the people and skyscrapers doesn't change the fact: it's a bunch of stuff created by intelligent apes (humans) trying to impress other intelligent apes. Beyond that, it's just ink on paper that isn't actually worth anything.
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My way of thinking as well, especially that second one.
 
Again, it wasn't an article but rather a promo piece for a supplier of survival prep supplies. Gloom and doom scaremongering for profits from increased sales.
 
Natural news is the same source that suggested the Colorado incident was "staged" then used their own articles to back up the claim. While a lot of what they say is true, a lot of it is just scarring sparrows. I promise you more than 10% of people in the United States could survive a small disaster, and much less than 10% could survive an extreme disaster-that's including preppers. Most of what Natural News discuss is extremely idiotic and just parroted from other news sources, albeit in an obscure fashion. When they aren't quoting other news sources they are simply reiterating the same shit heard time and time again. This article should be entitled: "One Thing Natural News Cannot Produce", 1. A valid and original article.
 
On the subject of what to do about good water in the event of a problem. I live where water is not the biggest issue in a land of endless lakes. However I have seen, studied, heard of, and tried a variety of methods. One option is to stockpile lots of water while you have it. City experts even say fill your bathtub. But 5 gallon containers may get stale, but not dangerous.
Another option, have a method of collecting rain water. Another option acquire a solar still. This is a way solar energy takes water out of the air (condensing it on a sheet of plastic) sometimes used on long sea voyages by lone sailors. Various filters are possible, but wear out. Some chemicals like iodine treat infected bacterial water, but not chemical issues in water. Make or buy a still. (boil water and condense it to solve chemical contamination. )
The option that works will depend on the situation that arises, you may have to be mobile, or you may have a secure place to store stuff. Some methods cost more.
I think being aware and having a basic knowledge of several options is better than knowing only one way. Having an option ahead of time is good. A weeks worth of stored water can buy time to come up with plan B. Long term problems will be different then short term disaster problems.
 
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