1080 vs others

O

O.L.C.

Joined
May 14, 2018
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I was just reading the thread on Kevin Cashen's video on 1080 &1084 steel. Sounds like a great video, people can't say enough good things about him and the lessons in the video.

But my question is, as a beginner, is 1080 &1084 a good steel to use? I don't do Damascus. And I am focusing on EDC, hunting, &camping knife styles. My heat source is a very basic charcoal forge. Is this a good way to go or are there better steels for my focus?
 
What makes 1080 and 1084 so good for a beginner is they are the eutectoid. That means they have just about exactly the right amount of carbon for the iron to bind with. No shortage, no excess. That allows the most simple HT and the least problems from overheating. Once a tad beyond non-magnetic they can be quenched in anything from a medium speed oil to water and will harden ( oil is best). A gallon or two of plain old canola oil from the grocery store works fine.

These steels make great knives, and aren't just "beginner steels". They are very popular with long time makers, too.
 
Some carbon steels rust/corrode easier than others. Where does 1080 and 1084 fall in this area? I live on the Wet (west) coast and it seems like everything rusts or rots here.
 
All 10xx have next to zero corrosion resistance. Pasivating them by etching or protecting them by parkerizing are helpful. They'll passivate on their own by developing a patina over time, but only parkerizing truly protects them to a level approaching more resistant alloys.
 
How deep does that parkerizing go? If I do that on a full tang knife, and hit it with the sand paper while shaping the handle will it ruin it?

Thanks as always for the help everyone
 
Randydb said:
Some carbon steels rust/corrode easier than others. Where does 1080 and 1084 fall in this area? I live on the Wet (west) coast and it seems like everything rusts or rots here.
Click to expand...

You hear this a lot. Carbon steels, which have minimal alloying, ALL rust the same. It is the availability of iron to oxygen that causes rust. In higher alloy steels, the alloying may tie things up so the oxygen can't get in the matrix as easily, and when chromium gets above 13% it is considered stainless ( which will still rust before HT).

I read statements regularly like "1o95 rusts more than 1084" ( or some similar statement), or "O-1 will rust while you look at it." While there may be minute differences, the upshot is carbon steels all rust about the same. What makes most blades seem to rust fast is in how we grind it. Tiny particles have more surface area than a smooth surface. Rough grit surfaces have more surface area than fine grit surfaces. When we grind, we dip the blades in water (which is probably slightly acidic). This water, which is a great source of oxygen, is in direct contact with all those fine grains of steel imbedded in the grooves of grinding. Wipe it dry and some of that water is still in those grooves and particles. We set a shiny fresh ground blade down and come back tomorrow and find it covered with red rust. This is flash rust, and not the same as corrosion rust, which penetrates the surface. Wipe it off and continue grinding. Some folks give the blade a spritz of WD-40* after grinding before setting it aside.
Most of us have a nice red stain on the concrete around the grinder because of the fine steel dust that gets in/on it reacting with the humidity in the air and the water drips/mist.

To prevent rust on a knife blade the only method that works is to keep moisture and oxygen away from the iron in the steel.
This can be done by:
A non-reactive liquid surface coating - oil, wax, silicone
A hard surface coating - epoxies, ceramics, plastics
Pre-Oxidizing the surface so the atmospheric oxygen cant find any unbound surface iron - Parkerizing, passivation, patination
Reducing the available surface area - fine grit finish and polishing
Increasing the non-reactive alloying high enough - stainless steel
Keep all things neutral or slightly basic that are used on the blade - add a teaspoon of baking soda to the dunk tank, use non-acid oils and coatings, keep fingerprints and food/oils that can go rancid off the blades*, clean the blade well and coat with a neutral oil when dry.

*Bladesmith's Trivia Tidbit:
Did you know that the name CANOLA is CANadian Oil Low Acid. One reason it is a good quenchant is it is low acid and does not easily go rancid.
WD-40 stands for Water Displacement - 40th attempt. It isn't a lubricant, just a liquid that coats the surface and keeps moisture away.
 
O.L.C. said:
How deep does that parkerizing go? If I do that on a full tang knife, and hit it with the sand paper while shaping the handle will it ruin it?

Thanks as always for the help everyone
Click to expand...

The way I have done full tang knives is either with removable scales or with alignment pins so the scales can be contoured prior to parking and simply assembled after.
 
**trivia part 2 the reason they went with canola oil and not the plant name, is because they would be calling it rapeseed oil other wise. Not great marketing. Lol

That is good stuff Stacy.

I have been glueing the handles on at 90% done. So still a chance of some scratching.

I really like the idea of this parkerizing.
 
Between 1080 and 1084, is one preferable? I've had moderate success with 1084 and its ease of heat treating, but I'm always willing to try different steels.
 
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