1084.... Holy Smokes

AVigil

AVigil

Adam Vigil working the grind
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I have made knives from 01, S35VN, 154 CM and really like them all. CPM 3V is next on the list.

But the last time I order S35VN from Aldo I decided to get some 1084.

I am really impressed with the steel. It is inexpensive, easy to grind, easy to heat treat, holds an edge, takes a nice finish and is tough as well as cuts nicely. I wish I had given it a try sooner.

I made a big mistake. The mistake was to not use it before due to it being lauded as a "Beginners Steel".

Actually it is a "Smart Choice Steel" for any knifemaker and especially those who do not have a HT oven.

We really need a concerted effort to stop calling it a "Beginners Steel" because it really is used by many accomplished makers, and it gives the steel the stigma of being inferior.

For those who feel the same way I did I recommend you give 1084 a try and I bet you will be impressed as well.
 
The first time I ordered it Aldo told me "it's the best used by the people who make the best"

I like it and think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't. The ONLY reason to ever use 1095 over 1084 would be for a hamon. Other than that ther would be no noticable difference.

I use O1 on my kitchen knives but would use 1084 if there wasn't such the stigma around it, as you said.
 
1084 has all the potential of a great knife steel.... plus the added bonus of being a perfect eutectoid. If anything, it should be dubbed "Simply Superior" rather than a "beginner" steel.

Aldo's 1084FG chemistry just knocks it out of the park, in my humble opinion.
 
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Rick has it.....1084 is a super steel.........it is super for all sorts of knives and in all sorts of maker skill levels.
 
Aldo's 1084 has replaced O1 in my ordering plans completely (except the stock I have to use up). I just read in another thread that Aldo will surface grind his steel for a fee?!? P-ground O1, see ya...

Love it!

-Daizee
 
Yep, love me some 1080/1084! Works well with hand tools, polishes nicely, can be heat treated by almost any method with the simplest equipment, holds an edge very respectably, can be forged, or ground. What else could you ask for in a high carbon steel?!


-Xander
 
I kinda like that most makers look down upon it....... MORE FOR ME!!!!!!!!!
 
Rick Marchand said:
1084 has all the potential of a great knife steel.... plus the added bonus of being a perfect eutectoid. If anything, it should be dubbed "Simply Superior" rather than a "beginner" steel.

Aldo's 1084FG chemistry just knocks it out of the park, in my humble opinion.
Click to expand...

Can you give a layman's explanation of "perfect eutectoid"? I tried googling it but it was all a bit over my head.
 
The eutectoid is the point where the carbon content matches the need from the iron to get a perfect combination. It is at .84%....which is what 1084 is. At that point it has the lowest austenitization point, and also requires no soak time. Because there is exactly the right amount of carbon, the eutectiod is neither hypo-eutectiod nor hyper-eutectiod ( too little or too much carbon). Both of those need a bit more attention in HT.

Thus, 1084 can be hardened in the simplest manner possible.....heat to non-magnet, and then a little more....quench in oil ( canola will work fine), temper at 400-450F for 2 hours, twice.
 
Simple(risking silly)...

Eutectiod wants to harden exactly as it should. .84% carbon is the sweet spot. All it needs to do is reach the right temperature. Anything above or below eutectiod(hyper/hypo) has to be coaxed or managed in some way.

It looks intimidating at first but Kevin Cashen's Working the three steel types thread will start to sink in after several reads... lol.

****Stacy beat me to the punch with a better description, I think.****
 
Aldo's 1084 is a bit different from say the run of the mill 1075/1080 that you might buy from Admiral. The first time that I made a straight steel knife from it, I was very pleasantly surprised at how fine of an edge that it would take, and this is when he first started selling it a few years back before I had upgraded my heat treatment gear.
 
I agree, 1084 is as perfect as it gets. The performance is simply outstanding.

I have no compromises in my heat treating regime and still feel 1084 can beat out many other steels thought of as superior. I put it in my top 5, maybe top 3.
 
The ability to hit maximum hardness within the steel matrix with no leftover carbon, and no large carbide-forming alloys to create big dislocations at the grain boundaries. The simplicity of it is deceptive, this balance of chemistry was presumably the holy grail of blade-makers for millenia, until modern steel production put us on the road to the highly-alloyed stuff that gets most of the attention these days.
 
I agree totally.

I would say that all of the same things hold for Aldo's low manganese 1075. If you want the same characteristics, and want a hamon, then go with the 1075. It forms better hamons than 1095, and is as easy to heat treat as 1084.

edited to add: if one looks at older texts, they say that the eutectoid point is much lower. I have seen as low as 77pts. I think the other alloying materials drive the eutectoid for carbon up just a tad. In fact, A. Reardon in Metallurgy for the Non-Metallurgist (2011) says that the eutectoid composition is 77pts of carbon in iron. So, 1075-1080 - 1084 are all in a sweet range.

If you don't want the hamon, then go for 1084 (although the difference between the two is likely so subtle that one couldn't pick it out without some serious equipment).

This type of steel is like a good friend or wife - once you understand it, it will give you everything it has to offer, every single time. Reliable, trustworthy, and always comes through. I use the 1075 more for heat treatment patterns, but it is the same basic thing.

Yes, I realize there will be some very minor differences in the microstructure, that may, just may, make 1075 from Aldo a little tougher and 1084 a little better at edge holding. But, with less alloying elements, the 1075 and the 1084 are actually both very close to eutectoid. 1075 may be 4 or so pts off, but that's not a lot.

(I really just want people to know that Aldo's 1075 is better for hamons than 1095, plus has the benefits of simple heat treatment. Look at my avatar, that is the tip of a 27" sword made of Aldo's 1075.)
kc
 
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Great point about the 1075 Kevin!!!

I bought 32' of 1080 and 8' of 1084. Haven't bought a single stitch of any other steel type yet.

Anyone who owns a pair of Channel Lock pliers should know they are great pliers in part because they are made of 1080. I have 2 pair that broke after 7-8 years of daily use that I plan to forge into a couple blades.

People "talk"'about rust, but my pliers form a patina after some use and daily sometimes hourly water exposure and the worst it gets is a surface rust in the grooves.
My personal hunter was carried daily for 10+ days of soggy Oregon hunting in the coast range. It developed a patina after it was bloodied up on a dear, but no rust.

I love me some eutectoid steel!!!
 
I made a post very similar to this a few months back..1084 is just awsome and has become our "go-to" knife steel for standard models..We use other steel of course espically when a hamon is called for but I love 1084...We heat it too about 1475*, quench in parks 50, then temper twice @ 450*...Makes a real cutter every time..
Also like Kevin said, Aldo's 1075 is very good steel too...
 
Alright Guys, Im still a noob but research as often as I can....so with that said, I understand the simplicity of this steal and the ease to heat treat without the use of expensive HT ovens. So, having never used 1084, and aside from the heat treat process how does it compare in wear resistance to steals like 01,52100 W2 AND 1095? I ask this knowing the difference in composition between these steels and the difference between hyper-eutectiod and eutectoid steels. But having read all the threads on this its been made to sound superior.....Again I have not used it yet but after reading this I might include it in my next order. Thanks Sunny
 
I own custom knives from other makers in 01, 1095 and 1084. Plus most of the knives I've made to date have been from those steels. Performance wise, I doubt the average person, along with most knife nuts and makers (myself included), could tell the difference if you handed them a box full of knives and say "tell me which steel is which". I like it for all the reasons stated above. Inexpensive to buy, easy heat treat, easy to work with, good performer.
 
there are subtle differences (OK sometimes not quite so subtle) in the performance of all of the basic carbon steels and oil and water hardening tool steels when each is *properly* heat treated and ground to optimal edge geometry. The way a great many folks on this forum approach their heat treating, edge geometry, and sharpening I would expect that Aldo's 1084 would far outshine other steels in their blades.
Personally I love Aldo's 1084, it forges beautifully, takes and holds an extremely fine narrow edge, and goes great with 15N20 in damascus. The Vanadium does a wonderful job of pinning the grain boundaries. I use it a lot. It is not as wear resistant as O-1 which used to be my go-to steel back when I was doing stock removal, but the ease with which it moves under the hammer is beautiful, it is not as tough when impacted as 5160, which is why I will continue to make sword blades out of 5160. The carbides that develop in 1095 add a small amount of wear resistance which is a beautiful thing, but the average user would never notice the difference, however Aldo's 1095 etches to a deep blue-black in straight up Ferric Chloride and looks great mixed with nickel sheet in Damascus so I use it for that

-Page
 
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