1084 ht

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unky_gumbi

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Aug 28, 2009
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I just got some 1084 stock and am going to make a couple of little EDC fixed blades out of it, well I screwed up the grind on the first one so I figured this would be a good learning experience for doing a hamon so that the piece isn't a total waste.

I can look of ht temps for 1084 no problem, but what I would like to know is how forgiving is 1084 in the ht and will a hamon show up if I miss the ht temps by a bit? And if I don't get what I am looking for can I anneal it and try again after cleaning it up? I find that a little experimentation goes a long way, but if I would completely ruin the piece and not learn something from it I would rather leave it on the scrap pile and maybe use it as spacer material or as pommel caps, maybe even a key chain fob.

Like I said right now the blank is destine for the scrap pile but I would like to learn from it before it goes there.
 
I can't help you on the hammon, but you can anneal 1084 back down and work it again, no problem.
It's often suggested when you do your HT to run a couple anneal heat cycles to get the best grain structure and get any warping out. Since I've been following that advice I've seen improvements in my HT.
 
1084 is a wonderful steel if heat treated correctly. As for a "hamon", it can be "Iffy". It is usually a little high on the manganese side, and this makes it a little hard to get a real poppin' hamon.

The key to getting a hamon on 1084 is:

One...... Don't over do your clay (too thick)

Two........ Use a fast oil. (You ain't gonna get much with Quaker State or Peanut Oil)

You can always start over, IF you didn't go with too high temps to begin with.

Experiment and say a few bad words. When you finish your rant, experiment again. You will eventually find the road map to what you are looking for.

Robert
 
I wasn't able to get anything resembling a hamon, guess that canola oil is too slow. I may try a heavy salt brine next time. I was able to sort of save the first blade by turning it into a convex grind. It has some heavy grind marks in it that if I tried to get out I would have too thin of a blade. It will work as a shop knife. I have enough steel to do about 3-4 more of this design with a bit left over, so with the left over part I will work on the hamon. I am not sure of the exact temps I am getting but I know I am going past 1414F and under 1675F I am guessing around 1500F.
 
Yup too much manganese. It will show a light one if you do everything right. You need a shallow hardening steel like 1095, W-1, or W-2. W-2 is my favorite but I have had good results with 1095 also.
 
I have seen some very nice hamons on 1084 here like this one Now I am not expecting anything like that but I would like to get just a light whispy line going and if I don't oh well.
 
Just because someone else was able to do it doesn't mean that I will be able to. Chances are that with my primitive set up that I wont be able to, but I will never know unless I try. I think I may have learned something though, I didn't use enough clay to slow down the quench, I will try again tomorrow with the leftover steel.

For all I know the steel used on that knife isn't really 1084 and its something else altogether and I am chasing ghosts on this.
 
There is a difference between a "true hamon" and a temper line. A hamon is created when blade is brought to temp and so is the clay coating then it is quenched. The clay acts as an insulator to prevent the complete transformation of austenite to martensite. The result in the transition zone is a combination of martinsite, pearlite, and retained austenite. To get a temper line the clay prevents the steel from obtaining transformation temperature and the edge is quenched thus you get a line. It is different but can look really nice. You do not get the wispy clouds that you can get with a "true hamon". I have done this on 5160, 52100, and O-1. These are all notoriously hard to get any type of hamon on. I did not understand the real process until I really began to study it. It is a never ending quest, at least for me so far.
 
There the catch;) if I start studying it now and get some good results, or at least encouraging results, maybe by the time I make some real nice knives I will be able to get good temper lines and true hamons.

I am going to keep experimenting and trying even when I am told it can't be done. Not because I don't believe them bit because I have to prove it to myself.
 
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