1084 Performance ?

OK got it, it seemed harsh at first but now you explain it I understand much better and no longer feel the same sentiment. How would you address a customer that would want something that would not be a "DO ALL AMAZING DEAL ULTIMATE SUPER SURVIVAL KNIFE" but is looking for a not completely specialised knife?

It comes down to two options- give the customer what he wants or refuse the order. I have made plenty of blades that I would not have chosen for myself, however as my waiting list hangs so heavily over me that I am no longer able to take any new orders, I will only make what I think is best when I get to make a spec order. I have however simply turned orders away when it was a knife that didn’t want to put my name on.

If a customer told me he wanted a skinner out of 1084, I would ask if he wanted the best skinner I could do or a “compromise” if he wanted the best skinner I would make it around 62 HRC and really fine edged, and then explain that it is a specialized tool that he needs to treat properly, if he came back with damage after chopping on nails to impress his friends, I would simply inform him that it is too bad that he decided to throw away his investment. But then you have the twit bad mouthing you and other makers shamelessly pandering to that imbecilic attitude pointing out how that knife should have stood up better than that. If you use your new Remington shotgun to pound in a fence post and it gets damaged is it Remington’s fault for not making a better shotgun???? To avoid all of this most of us account for the idiot factor and make a skinner that will do all kinds of things in a lackluster way… including skinning.

Recently I read a post here where a fellow made a nice sharp knife for a guy only to see him later digging worms with it; that is exactly what I am talking about! As custom smiths we are supposed to make better knives than you can buy on the Home Shopping Network but if people are going to dig worms with them regardless of how much they pay, why bother? And if another maker thinks you should stand behind the skinning knife that was used to dig worms, they are more of a problem than the worm digger.

Very often when I am drawing back a knife to below 61 HRC that has O1 in it I am saddened at the loss of a real performer in order to account for the idiot factor, but I think of how the end user will do all sorts of stupid things with it and then say I am great, instead of ruining a really good knife and calling me a hack. We thump our chests that a customer could bend our blades back a forth multiple times and that they can easily sharpen it, instead of making a blade you could stand on without bending and rarely needs sharpening. There is no need to pile on me to remind me I am a minority in this opinion, I am painfully aware of that fact, and it saddens me.

You know I am going to stop now, for some reason I am in a mood today and this topic is at the heart of a lot of the problems in our business. I am not angry about this just very sad and for some reason folks think I am a nice guy so since I am using more invective adjectives than I normally would I believe it may be time to put my head back in the sand and think of other things.
 
I think higher hardnesses are fine on smaller blades, slicers, skinners, etc., but don't have a problem with compromises for multi purpose utility knives etc., and lower hardnesses on choppers and riving knives etc. It's all good and all has it's place.

I do agree with Kevin that there is a lot of silly knife abuse and use going on out there, not sure what the remedy is though... Maybe just talk with the customers and see what exactly they want to use it for and expect it to do.
 
Sorry for pushing the issue a bit Kevin, I understand why you would be sad about that, it's such a shame. Education amongst ourselves as makers it seems is getting easier, but the hard part is educating everyone else.
 
My question would be, how would you know, it was that hard? Do you have a rockwell tester, or other means of knowing?

It's been talked about on other threads but...

If you don't have a Rockwell tester, you need to do several different types of hardness comparison testing with other blades and cutting tools of known hardness and composition,... and field testing. It takes some experience. Over the years I've owned and tested probably hundreds of other factory knives and custom knives just for that purpose. I'm fortunate that I can usually trade for whatever I want. I've always used my findings purely for my own knowledge...

I have to admit that I have exercised the idiot factor and totally ruined lots of them… "Curiosity kills the cat." :D
 
It's good to hear someone like Kevin stand up and speak out about some of the gut wrenching foolishness, knife abuse, and misuse that goes on out there.

Heck,... you can destroy any knife,... and any given piece of steel can only take so much...

STOP KNIFE ABUSE NOW! :)
 
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Thanks for those nice explanations, Kevin. Should be required reading. Also interesting to read knifemaker comments on the abusive knife "testing" trend.
 
Some good comments in this thread. I feel knives capable of taking abuse are already in the majority, if you want to make something unique then make it thin and hard and push your knives to the market of customers looking for the greatest performance.
 
It’s time we all stand together and try to do something to STOP all the senseless knife abuse going on out there!
 
... for some reason folks think I am a nice guy...



.................
.................who thinks you're a nice guy?:D:D:D

BTW, Kev... what cigars are you getting for me this year?

One of the things we must all remember is the used car sales adage "There's an ass for every seat."

Just because something is dumb as hell (or flat-out wrong!) doesn't mean some schmuck won't buy it! We need to cater to the customers that understand why they're buying from us, and remember that we can't save someone that doesn't wish to be saved...
 
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