1084 punch to punch anealed 1084? If so, what hardness?

Fitzhugh

Fitzhugh

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Feb 5, 2013
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I want to try making a small woodworking rasp. I've got some of Aldo's 1084 that is like to use for the rasp itself. How will it work for the punch? Any suggestions for how hard I should aim for when tempering it? I'll harden the tip more than the rest so it is tougher.

Noel Liogier of the Liogier company in France has shared the following photo here on bloodworms. I mean Bladeforums (my phone insists I am trying to type bloodworms. Ack!)

grains11.jpg

... in thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/901928-Hand-stitching-a-riffler-or-rasp-video but understandably didn't want to go into details about what specific steel they use.

Would I be better off just going right for a shock resistant steel or hss? Or, rather, is 1084 so wholly unsuited to this that I should not bother trying a punch from it first? It doesn't seem like it would be a problem but I don't have a good feel for this stuff yet. I've made a few small knives and a number of woodworking tools so far but 1084 is the only steel I've tried.

I've managed to get pretty consistent teeth and get an idea how different angles for grinding the punch and fur holding the punch effect the results when trying it out with a wooden punch on some non hardening clay I have for practicing forging. I'm sure it will differ greatly in steel but the lesson should translate a bit.
I did try grinding a center punch but it filled too much after the first hit and raised a very small tooth. I figured it would be a good start since it is used for something similar, though the conical point on the center punch is a much stronger shape with no edges involved.

This is just for the fun of trying, not out of any expectation I'll end up with a great tool. I know that although it is a relatively simple process in terms of the actual steps it takes a whole lot of skill and practice to get good results.

Thanks, any hints could cut my trial and error down.
 
Most (non-carbide) gravers are high carbon steel, like W2 and 1095. 1084 should work OK. Try one out and see. I would suggest Rc 58-60 range. Again testing may be the best way to hone in on the exact right hardness. Harden and temper to Rc62, sharpen and test a half dozen punch cuts. If the edge chips, re-temper to Rc60 and try again. If the edge fails, try 58, etc. Repeat until you get to the point where the edge starts to deform or dull instead of chip. Move back up to the spot where you get the most punches and you have it.
 
Thank you for the help, Matt and Stacy.
Also, thanks for the patient explanation of what should have been obvious to me. I got caught up thinking I might spend a bunch of time trying to make it work when it just wouldn't if the steel was wrong, but I should have tested in some detail first - that's how I may eventually obtain the feeling for the material that would let me answer such questions for myself.
So, they're gravers, not punches, that explains why I could find little via google.

I'll make a few since they take so little steel, that way I can grind them with different angles but heat treat them the same, try them, regrind and further temper the ones that chip soonest and try again. That way they testing will be a bit more systomatic.

Even the unhardened test piece with it's teeth of many forms and sizes did a surprisingly good job of shaping some hickory that was convenient. It cut well without hanging up like cheap store bought rasps often will. The finish was not smooth enough due to the varied teeth but it was't torn up. I can only imagine how great a proper hand-stitched one would be.
 
Another word to search is "burin". Hand struck gravers for working on steel are often called burins.
 
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