1084

Bryant Hollinger

Bryant Hollinger

Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
58
Im looking for a supplier of 1084 flat stock on line. 1/8 x 1 1/2

Also is 1084 easier to heat treat correctly than 1095? If so why is it?
 
My understanding is that with 1095, you have less time to quench under the nose, meaning you have to quench it quickly to avoid pearlite formation and acheive maximum martensite formation. 1084 gives you a bit more wiggle room to quench, while still creating a good product.

After corresponding with another maker, I believe I need to clarify my post a bit. You've got to get the 1095 to below 900F or so in around a second. That's what I meant by having to quench quickly. As others have pointed out, that takes the proper quench oil. Water/brines work, but typically shock the steel a bit more and create increased risk for blade failure. If the quenchant you use doesn't cool the steel quickly enough, you will begin to form pearlite instead of the martensite that you want.

--nathan
 
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With 1095, you have under a second to drop the heat from around 1500°, to under 900° in the quench. This is not easily done with commonly used, common oils. Of course water will do this, but you will experience many blade loses in using just water. Brine will quench even faster, but more evenly, but the best way to go is with Parks #50, or a similar oil. 1080/84 is very user friendly in Hting with less than ideal equipment, and will hold a very good edge nearing the abilities of 1095. 1080/84 is about as foolproof as steel gets in it's HT requirements.
 
Now to answer the OPs other question :)

Kelly Cupples has 1080 in 1 1/2"x1/8". His price list can be found here.

-d
 
Thin 1084 stock is getting hard to come by, Kelly stopped selling it :/ The 1080 listed above is very similar and I think will work well for you.
 
Thanks

If you had to use some type of "household" i.e. commonly found quenchant for 10xx steel what would it be. I have used water with success in the past but I understand the risk of warpage or breakage. Would veggie or mineral oil do? I know that there are some problems with the vapor barrier around the blade so you should move the blade around gently as you quench. But will that really make a difference as the quench happens ( or should happen) very fast?
 
Bryant Hollinger said:
Thanks

If you had to use some type of "household" i.e. commonly found quenchant for 10xx steel what would it be. I have used water with success in the past but I understand the risk of warpage or breakage. Would veggie or mineral oil do? I know that there are some problems with the vapor barrier around the blade so you should move the blade around gently as you quench. But will that really make a difference as the quench happens ( or should happen) very fast?
Click to expand...

It depends somewhat on your process. I've had good luck with peanut oil heated to ~150-160 as well as vet grade mineral oil. I would say though, if you're considering mineral oil (about $13/gallon near me) you may as well just buy the same amount of Parks #50 from Darren Ellis at $15/gallon and call the shipping expenses "cheap insurance".

Just my $.02.

-d
 
For 1080, yes. Canola, peanut, ATF, most relatively thin oils. Peanut has a high flash temp, so might be a tad safer and last longer, but you should heat any of these oils to 125°/135°. Much higher in the oil temp, and it will slow the martensite conversion, reduceing the amount of it, and increasing the possibility of pearlite formation in the martensite. The warm oil will reduce the vapor jacket. Move the blade fore, and aft. Never sideways, and start moving it as soon as it is in the oil. Do this maybe 30, to 45 seconds. This will cool the blade to a point that it is still a bit to hot to handle bare handed. Holding the blade with gloves, or a rag, check for warp. You have about three, to five minutes to straighten the warp with hand pressure, before it fully hardens. If you thermocycle the blade before taking it up to quench heat, you should have little, to no warp.
 
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I should have said normalizing. Same thing. In your situation, I am assuming you are using simple equipment, I would say bring the blade to what you think is at 1500°, or some above. To most eyes, a bright red-orange, more orange than red. Let cool until you can hold in bare hands, or room temp. Then bring it up again to just a tad over non-magnetic and let cool. Bring it up again to a dull black-red, under non-magnetic, and let cool. Then bring it to a good red-orange, around 1475°/1500°, and quench. The normalizing will relieve stresses, and better yet, make the grain much smaller. Mete', or Kevin may tell you a little different. If so, listen to them. They are the experts.
 
The beauty of Parks #50 is that you don't have to heat it up unless is the temp in your shop drops below 70F.
 
With 1095, or any other steel, I would certainly heat it. You have problems enough trying to beat the one second nose to forming good martensite if using 1095. Heating any quench oil, that I know of, enhances the oils performance in retarding the vapor jacket.
 
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