1095 1095-CroVan

A

arijer

Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
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Hi everyone.

I tried a search and came up short. So i will post this question for you :D

Most of my 1095 blades are ESEE, yup beckerheads, you read that right :thumbup:

My kind and sweet wife got me a BK-5, so now i need to put it through some abuse, lol.

What is the difference between 1095 and 1095 CroVan that KaBar uses on the Becker blades? Is it for corrosion resistence, or more of a grain refiner? And if so, has anyone noticed a actual difference between using a 1095 blade vs a 1095 CroVan?

I understand that a lot of it has to do with a good HT, but at some point alloy compostion comes into play in all of it. I just dont know enough about it all yet to get a clear picture.

Oh and she also got me a San mai Becker Necker and Micarta scales. Its bizzare but I cant get them on the blade. Its like they sent me two right sides slabs. I am sure i am wrong about that, but I cant figure it out. Oh well.

Either way, nice wife:D:thumbup:
 
arijer, in doing some research here at BFC, I read that the cut-outs on the San Mai necker are slightly smaller than the regular BK-11. You may have to do a little bit of modding on those micarta scales. I think Bladite's done it, so maybe he can chime in here eventually.
 
The 1095CV is Chrome Vanadium carbon steel 1095. Very much like the older Case and Buck knives USED to be made of. The way I see it, there is little to no difference in the steels performance, but the 1095CV seems to hold an edge longer. I too have ESEE knives and see little to no difference, except the edge retention, and only a small part of that.

The old timers used to call it Black Steel, mainly, because it would take a patina that would darken to being nearly all black, with little to no rainbowing of blue and reddish hues, just straight black.

As far as I know, Kabar is the only ones using 1095CV right now, in large blades, a few companies are doing slipjoints with this steel again, but most are using 1085CV. ???? Don't ask me the difference.

Metallurgist of the forums, heed my call, an alloy question is upon you.

Moose

A little search fu. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=749929
 
the series of steel is 10 the carbon content is .95 this makes 1095.
same with 1085.

1095 Cro-Van is not really a steel, its just a name from Sharon Steel company and it just stuck.

It is 1095 with a little chromium added for better hardening.
Some Moly for Edge Strength and a little more Edge Holding.
Some Nickel for some added Toughness and a little Vanadium for better Bonding.

Its really called 50-100B

It really comes down to the heat treatment.....
 
Flexxx said:
the series of steel is 10 the carbon content is .95 this makes 1095.
same with 1085.

1095 Cro-Van is not really a steel, its just a name from Sharon Steel company and it just stuck.

It is 1095 with a little chromium added for better hardening.
Some Moly for Edge Strength and a little more Edge Holding.
Some Nickel for some added Toughness and a little Vanadium for better Bonding.

Its really called 50-100B

It really comes down to the heat treatment.....
Click to expand...

Very well done. But can you dance too?

:D:thumbup:

Moose
 
arijer said:
Oh and she also got me a San mai Becker Necker and Micarta scales. Its bizzare but I cant get them on the blade. Its like they sent me two right sides slabs. I am sure i am wrong about that, but I cant figure it out. Oh well.
Click to expand...

pictures.

yeah, a little trimming with a utility knife, should help. go slow. test.

the cutouts on the san-mai are a teeny bit smaller than the regular 11, so...
 
Flexxx said:
the series of steel is 10 the carbon content is .95 this makes 1095.
same with 1085.

1095 Cro-Van is not really a steel, its just a name from Sharon Steel company and it just stuck.

It is 1095 with a little chromium added for better hardening.
Some Moly for Edge Strength and a little more Edge Holding.
Some Nickel for some added Toughness and a little Vanadium for better Bonding.

Its really called 50-100B

It really comes down to the heat treatment.....
Click to expand...

:D

I read Mike Stewart's (from Bark River knives) explantion too.:D

Here's his entire post on that other forum:

1095 is bacically Iron and 1% Carbon.

A great Solid Knife Steel.

Perfoamance will totally depend on Heat treat and Geometry.

0170-6 - 50-100B and 1095Cr0-Van are the Same Steel

It is 1095 with a little chromium added for better hardening - A little Moly for Edge Strength and a little more Edge Holding - A little Nickel for some added Toughness and a little Vanadium for better Bonding.

the use of the term 1095Cro-Van is not a steel term or even any real name for a steel.

It is something that developed from internal memos between Sharon Steel (The Developer of the formula) and all of the Knife Companies that ordered it back in the 50s - 60s - 70s & 80s. Companies ordered it from Sharon and the name stuck - internally between those Companies.

It was never a name for the Steel.

I really wish Companies had Stuck to the real names for that Steel.

0170-6 and 50-100B.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks guys for all the help. Now i have to wait for my ritter/becker knife, I was going to buy the BK2 but i got sidetracked, lol

I did my research and looked at them and looked at them... sorry but who ever made those micarta grips sent me two same sided slabs. I will post some picks later. Who in God's name would be that ....???? to do that...ugh.
 
arijer said:
Thanks guys for all the help. Now i have to wait for my ritter/becker knife, I was going to buy the BK2 but i got sidetracked, lol

I did my research and looked at them and looked at them... sorry but who ever made those micarta grips sent me two same sided slabs. I will post some picks later. Who in God's name would be that ....???? to do that...ugh.
Click to expand...

contract your vendor and have them ship you out the right item (verified visually), with postage pre-paid both ways.

though chances are, some mistake was made at the factory, the vendor did sell you defective merch.

OR you could contact Toooj @ KaBar, but you'll probably have to pay to send them back, but they WILL do the right thing as need be.
 
Bladite said:
contract your vendor and have them ship you out the right item (verified visually), with postage pre-paid both ways.

though chances are, some mistake was made at the factory, the vendor did sell you defective merch.

OR you could contact Toooj @ KaBar, but you'll probably have to pay to send them back, but they WILL do the right thing as need be.
Click to expand...

Sorry cant do that, I will contact KC in the am. I completely understand having to pay shipping for my mess up, even if the company is kind enough to still cover the actual repair under warrenty... but for some one else's screw up??? Sorry, rubs me wrong. I will contact KC and see what they have to say... more to follow..
Now this BK 5 knife... me like:D
 
Flexxx said:
the series of steel is 10 the carbon content is .95 this makes 1095.
same with 1085.

1095 Cro-Van is not really a steel, its just a name from Sharon Steel company and it just stuck.

It is 1095 with a little chromium added for better hardening.
Some Moly for Edge Strength and a little more Edge Holding.
Some Nickel for some added Toughness and a little Vanadium for better Bonding.

Its really called 50-100B

It really comes down to the heat treatment.....
Click to expand...


I have seen no information from Kabar saying that 1095 Cro Van is 50-100B. Merely guesses from other sources who may or may not be correct. Those same sources have identified Case CV as being the same steel. This last I know to be untrue.

From the name of the alloy, and from Ethan Becker's comments about it, I would judge it to be most similar to the 0170-6C that Camillus used for Beckers or their premium line. Camillus called it Carbon V when they were making blades for Cold Steel

0176-6C was 1095 with ~ 0.5% Chromium and ~0.2% Vanadium. (I've seen the analysis results.) No Moly. This composition is supposed to give a more uniform heat treat response and a finer grain structure, respectively. The finer grain structure should give a steel that is tougher than 1095 if both blades are hardened to the same hardness.
 
Yeah, 1095 CV is basically what Camillus used for Cold Steel, Becker and their own premium line.

I got a couple of CS while Camillus still made them, and I got a Becker a couple of months after Camillus tanked. My experience was that the Cold Steel blades had a better heat treat than the Camillus.

I had the Camillus chip like glass when I was sharpening it and hit it against the stone a little to smartly on accident. Took me the better part of an hour to get that chip sharpened out.

Point is, I don't know if Ka-Bar is using the same heat treat that Camillus did, but after I sharpened the chip out, I took the handle scales off and put the blade in the oven for two one-hour cycles at about 350. That took care of the brittleness.

Just in case you have the same problem.
 
Carbon V is a coldsteel product, they change steels all the time and call it Carbon V..

I'm not 100% on it being true or not, but I have heard it from alot of people
 
seth2915 said:
Yeah, 1095 CV is basically what Camillus used for Cold Steel, Becker and their own premium line.

I got a couple of CS while Camillus still made them, and I got a Becker a couple of months after Camillus tanked. My experience was that the Cold Steel blades had a better heat treat than the Camillus.

I had the Camillus chip like glass when I was sharpening it and hit it against the stone a little to smartly on accident. Took me the better part of an hour to get that chip sharpened out.

Point is, I don't know if Ka-Bar is using the same heat treat that Camillus did, but after I sharpened the chip out, I took the handle scales off and put the blade in the oven for two one-hour cycles at about 350. That took care of the brittleness.

Just in case you have the same problem.
Click to expand...

Camillus had a period of some "random" heat treats... however, they made the blades for Cold Steel and Becker... and their own heat treat. same steel - yeah, they can't CALL it carbon-v, but the Beckers are made with it (as you said).

KaBar's heat treat is different, and perhaps superior. they have Toooj after all :)

we would like our mass produced items to be consistent, but they aren't always. so it goes.
 
Flexxx said:
Carbon V is a coldsteel product, they change steels all the time and call it Carbon V..

I'm not 100% on it being true or not, but I have heard it from alot of people
Click to expand...

Nonsense. The Cold Steel Carbon V blades were all made by Camillus. That is common knowledge.
 
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Bladite said:
Camillus had a period of some "random" heat treats... however, they made the blades for Cold Steel and Becker... and their own heat treat. same steel - yeah, they can't CALL it carbon-v, but the Beckers are made with it (as you said).

KaBar's heat treat is different, and perhaps superior. they have Toooj after all :)

we would like our mass produced items to be consistent, but they aren't always. so it goes.
Click to expand...

The heat treats are undoubtedly different. Ethan Becker has stated that the Kabar heat treat produces a tougher blade.
 
knarfeng said:
Nonsense. The Cold Steel Carbon V blades were all made by Camillus. That is common knowledge.
Click to expand...

Yes, they were made by Camillus, Camillus stopped and coldsteel trademarked the product to sound like some special steel.

Carbon V
Chorme Vanadium
0170-6
50100-B

its upgraded 1095...
 
Flexxx said:
Carbon V is a coldsteel product, they change steels all the time and call it Carbon V..

I'm not 100% on it being true or not, but I have heard it from alot of people
Click to expand...

that's because there are a "lot" of CS haters out there.. so many elements against CS for one reason or another, make me think if Bark River's problems were cs they'd be bashed much more.. but there's always the holy grail.. :rolleyes:
 
Flexxx said:
Yes, they were made by Camillus, Camillus stopped and coldsteel trademarked the product to sound like some special steel.

Carbon V
Chorme Vanadium
0170-6
50100-B

its upgraded 1095...
Click to expand...

Your timeline is incorrect. So is your data.
"Carbon V" was a name given to a specific alloy which was used by Camillus to make Cold Steel blades. The trademarking occurred at the time it was first used, not after it was discontinued. This, according to BF member Phil Gibbs, who used to work as a designer for Camillus, and is now working for AG Russel. As corroboration, I found the composition in a book, The Wonder of Knife Making by Wayne Goddard. Goddard took a Cold Steel Carbon V blade and had it chemically analyzed. I posted his results earlier in this thread. If you bother to look up the book, you can see it as well. There is no Moly in the alloy.

With Camillus in financial disarray in its final years, there is no guaranty that they actually used this alloy in their end runs. But, they were supposed to have according to their agreement with Cold Steel.

Here are comments from Phil Gibbs:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4301656&postcount=17

I have seen no data stating that 1095 Cro Van is 50100B, aside from a comment by someone who has provided misinformation on other alloys. (I do not refer to any member in this current thread.)
 
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