1095 blade micro chipping?

C.Edmondson

C.Edmondson

Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
1,114
I recently forged out 5 fighters, blades are 9 inches. SO heres what I done. I heat treated in mineral oil warmed to about 115 degrees, I know its not a perfect quench oil, I have some houghton k on its way. I then tempered the blade for 1 hour 30 mins at 450. Now I always put a knife together and finish it one at a time, so today it was time to sharpen my first fighter. Now it got super sharp but after I run my fingernail down the blade I noticed it had tons of micro chips in it. I use a ceramic rod for final sharpening. I read a bunch of stuff on the net tonight about a2 chipping, and some stainless steels chipping but didnt find out much about 1095, should I have tempered longer and more? I put 3 days into making this knife and its a no go, :grumpy:, so to keep me from making my newbie mistakes again I will appreciate any and all advice, Thanks for everyones help,Charlie:)
 
This is what stacy told me to use, a few years back. no problems with is way for me.


1095
slow heat to 1525 , soak for 4 to 5 min bigger blade , smaller blades 3 to 4 min.
Oil should be 130 to 140f. Park#50
Temp @450 2 times with cool-down between



vern
 
How long are those temperes for vern? I sure appreciate the help, If I can ever help you just let me know, Thanks Buddy! Charlie
 
C.Edmondson said:
How long are those temperes for vern? I sure appreciate the help, If I can ever help you just let me know, Thanks Buddy! Charlie
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one hour each with a cool down between the last one. total 2 one hour tempers
 
Charlie,
The micro chipping may be an artifact of the HT. If there is some grain growth, the edge you feel may be the exposed grain boundaries. Most likely, it is just a super thin edge wire that needs to be stropped off. Try stropping the blade, then cutting a few cuts in cardboard. Test the edge on your nail again....is the roughness still there?

Take a good magnifying loupe and look at the edge closely. Is the edge chipped or is it the wire. Chips will go in from the edge, the wire sticks out from the edge. There will always be some micro-chips, but a properly stropped blade will have no wire. The degree of fineness on the edge depends on the grit the edge was ground on and the metal the blade is from. 1095 with a proper HT will get a very smooth and sharp edge with some time spent in the sharpening and stropping.

I usually recommend two, two hour tempers. A minimum of two one hour cycles is needed, but two hours is a safer process.

A brass rod test will tell you more than just feeling the edge with your nail.Also, the finer the edge angle, the more you will feel the wire.
Stacy
 
Thank you very much stacy, I run the brass rod test and the egde microchipped even more. I used a regular arkansas bench stone to sharpen after the ceramic rods made it chip, the bench stone worked out better. but I am still gonna ditch the knife and start on a new one and use 2- 2 hour temps at 450. 1 - temp for 1hrs and 30 mins at 430 just wasnt enough, but hey I love learning, so Im headed back to the shop to do it again! Thank you very much for your info and help, Charlie
 
I've never worked with 1095 but have worked with W-1, 52100, 1084, and 5160 for my J.S. test knives. One thing I've learned is that everyones ovens are different. I had Mastersmiths recommend tempering temeratures that were way different than mine. Just because it works on their equipment doesn't mean it will work on yours. Take one of your blades after HT and grind it down to your final edge, sharpen and chop something with it like a 2 x 4. If the edge chips put it back in the oven and bump up the temperature by 25 degerees till you get it right. One more thing take notes on your HT Temps. I can never remember all those numbers working with different steels.

Good luck
Mike Quesenberry

www.quesenberryknives.com
 
Thank you very much Mike!! Right now I have a toaster oven that has a standing temperature gauge inside of it. Funny thing about it is on the oven dial its only on 325 when the standing temp gauge reads 440-450 degrees. Its off very bad. Thats the next thing Im gonna buy is a good tempering oven, again thank for your help!!! Charlie
 
Great advise Mike.

Charlie, I want to reiterate that the problem may be part HT and part edge angle. A straight razor blade will cut like crazy, but will chip easily sharpening a pencil. A proper camp knife edge will chop a cord of wood ( OK maybe only a half cord) and not chip, but won't shave your whiskers. Edges need to be matched to the blade type, the steel used, and the testing methods.
Stacy
 
C.Edmondson said:
... I have some houghton k on its way... Charlie:)
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Charlie,

If you've got an interest, when you get the Houghto-quench "K" and have some time using it, I like to hear what your experience with it is.

Mike

PS -- I don't know how you've got your toaster oven set up or what thermometer you are using but a person can get them to temper well by having some added mass in them, using a really good kitchen thermometer (still cheap), and adding a radiant shield over the elements (if the oven doesn't already have one). If the oven has a tray, 3/8" + of sand/gravel is plenty to dampen the temperature swing and aluminum foil can be used for an element shield (thin stainless or chromed steel holds up better). An accurate oven thermometer is a CDN MOT1 Multi-Mount Oven Thermometer. They are about $8.00.
 
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Thanks again Mike and Stacy!! Man you guys have reall yhelped me out and I greatly appreciate it. Today I talked to a knife making buddy of mine here in Bama who has alot of experience in 1095 and he offered some advice on not quenching the blade at to hot a temperature. I usually do my quenching at night so I can see the colors well but this on was done in the day light hours and I wasnt really able to see the colors to well. I done with this guess work quenching temps, this weekend I am going to put myself together a heat treating forge with a thermocouple. I will let you guys know how the Quench K works, one thing for sure is that the people at houghton are some of the nicest people I have ever delt with!! they will bend over backwards to help you out, again thanks Mike and Stacy for your help, If I can ever help you guys let me know,CHarlie:thumbup:
 
C.Edmondson said:
Thanks again Mike and Stacy!! Man you guys have reall yhelped me out and I greatly appreciate it. Today I talked to a knife making buddy of mine here in Bama who has alot of experience in 1095 and he offered some advice on not quenching the blade at to hot a temperature. I usually do my quenching at night so I can see the colors well but this on was done in the day light hours and I wasnt really able to see the colors to well. I done with this guess work quenching temps, this weekend I am going to put myself together a heat treating forge with a thermocouple. I will let you guys know how the Quench K works, one thing for sure is that the people at houghton are some of the nicest people I have ever delt with!! they will bend over backwards to help you out, again thanks Mike and Stacy for your help, If I can ever help you guys let me know,CHarlie:thumbup:
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You're sure welcome, Charlie... and I got the same help from Houghton that you did.

Mike
 
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