1095 CroVan or 5160 for rust?

[FoxHound21048]

So im not terribly new to the world of knives, though im more attune to knives that dont interfere with future finances...

Anyway i lost my favorite knife last year, being a buck hood punk in 5160. I loved it because it was a tank. The finish wore a bit, the tip chipped (my fault), and putting an edge on it was not the most fun thing, but it made me feel like i had enough knife.

Im in the market for a new knife of similar quality and price point of around $100.00.

Im in between the new Buck GCK Ground Tanto which boasts the same thickness, and 5160 with a cerakote finish. I like its looks, and im thinking it will balance well too.

My other choice is the Kabar Turok knife in 1095 crovan. It has a saber grind (not sure of the grind on the buck). It looks to be a hybrid of survival and tactical ( which i like ).

Now i know the mantra. 1095 had 95% carbon and has better edge retention. 1095 will pit when it rusts.

5160 is a leaf spring steel that has a carbon content between 60 and 70% it has the addition of a small amount of chromium to mitigate pitting, causing the steel to rust evenly and resist pitting.
The steel is usually hardened to 53 to 56 and does not hold an edge as well though you could chop a tree with it. (i can attest to this).

My question is though since the 1095 Kabar uses has been modified with chromium and vandium, would it have similar rust resistant qualities to 5160? If so i might be leaning to the kabar as buck's 5160 was not fun to keep sharp, and ive had a korean war kabar impress the shit out of me. Still dont want knife to break.

Idk, which of the 2 would you choose for medium survival / fighting knife? Keep in mind i have a hatchet and a CRKT Chanceinhell machette 16" for anything super serious. I just like a 5.5 to 6 inch knife around 3/16 to .2 inch thick that can be weilded fast, but still be tough enough that i dont feel the need to baby it. I prob will use it for food prep, maybe fire stick making and ferro rod striking, light to medium battoning, and wear it right side kydex tucked in belt with a zip tie to draw it defensively from a 45 degree forward angle in reverse grip. Want a knife capable of not loosing its tip if forcefully embedded in a loaded ar15 mag.

 

[gazz98]

Welcome to Bladeforums!

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/5160-vs-1095.472182/

I would expect the 5160 to be better then 1095 in rust resistance. Kabars 1095 CroVan is certainly a tried and true steel tho. I don't think the gap between the two is huge.

If I had to choose between the two, I'd go Buck. 5.5" blade is about the perfect size imo. The micarta handles look nice.

If the $30 price difference is important, there is nothing wrong with the Kabar either. Plenty of Kabar/Becker fans here at BFs.

A few other budget options to consider. Linked to BHQ for easy reference.

https://www.bladehq.com/item--Cold-Steel-SRK-Search-Rescue-Fixed--52053
SK-5 similar to 1080. Yes it will rust if not taken care of but that goes for 1095 and others as well. Great knife for the money. Pair it with a Mora (stainless) for food prep and you'd be around $60 before s/h.

https://www.bladehq.com/item--Steel-Will-Roamer-Fixed-Blade-Knife--77143
D2 about 12% chromium. Close to stainless steel but can and will rust. Best rust resistance of anything mentioned so far. Very tough. Can chip and be tough to sharpen (not bad with diamond plates).

Google "Terava Jaakaripuukko" and look at the reviews around here and youtube. Another contender for best bang for the buck knife. Shorter then you want maybe.

 

[craytab]

So im not terribly new to the world of knives, though im more attune to knives that dont interfere with future finances...

Anyway i lost my favorite knife last year, being a buck hood punk in 5160. I loved it because it was a tank. The finish wore a bit, the tip chipped (my fault), and putting an edge on it was not the most fun thing, but it made me feel like i had enough knife.

Im in the market for a new knife of similar quality and price point of around $100.00.

Im in between the new Buck GCK Ground Tanto which boasts the same thickness, and 5160 with a cerakote finish. I like its looks, and im thinking it will balance well too.

My other choice is the Kabar Turok knife in 1095 crovan. It has a saber grind (not sure of the grind on the buck). It looks to be a hybrid of survival and tactical ( which i like ).

Now i know the mantra. 1095 had 95% carbon and has better edge retention. 1095 will pit when it rusts.

5160 is a leaf spring steel that has a carbon content between 60 and 70% it has the addition of a small amount of chromium to mitigate pitting, causing the steel to rust evenly and resist pitting.
The steel is usually hardened to 53 to 56 and does not hold an edge as well though you could chop a tree with it. (i can attest to this).

My question is though since the 1095 Kabar uses has been modified with chromium and vandium, would it have similar rust resistant qualities to 5160? If so i might be leaning to the kabar as buck's 5160 was not fun to keep sharp, and ive had a korean war kabar impress the shit out of me. Still dont want knife to break.

Idk, which of the 2 would you choose for medium survival / fighting knife? Keep in mind i have a hatchet and a CRKT Chanceinhell machette 16" for anything super serious. I just like a 5.5 to 6 inch knife around 3/16 to .2 inch thick that can be weilded fast, but still be tough enough that i dont feel the need to baby it. I prob will use it for food prep, maybe fire stick making and ferro rod striking, light to medium battoning, and wear it right side kydex tucked in belt with a zip tie to draw it defensively from a 45 degree forward angle in reverse grip. Want a knife capable of not loosing its tip if forcefully embedded in a loaded ar15 mag.

I thought this would be an easy choice: the Turok all the way. But then when I looked at them the Buck really does have a lot going for it. The steels are a wash for me. If you really care that much about the differences, do the research, I think both companies put out a fine product, regarding steel and HT.

The Turok is less risky. It has been out for a while. The handle is more neutral. Same with the blade shape.

The Buck gives you more for your "buck". Better sheath. Better handle material. I think the coating will hold up better. I'm not a tanto person, but the blade has funky parts to it. The handle is also a bit funky, might not work with your hand. The buck is a bit more risky in that sense.

If it were me, and only these two choices, I think I might just roll the dice on the buck.

 

[FoxHound21048]

Okay, just theowing one more option i was interested in. The ontario tfi? A little meaty, but i feel like its solid. Thoughts?

 

[gazz98]

The only thing wrong with the TFI is the curve of the handle might not fit well with your hands depending on the size of your hands. I personally tend to stay away from handles shaped like that since it is hit or miss on being comfortable. The Buck or the Cold Steel SRK I linked have a handle that is more "neutral" and will fit all hand types well (generally). Curves and finger grooves are things I avoid unless I can handle the knife before I buy it. I also wear a 2XL glove.

 

[DocT]

Cold Steel Drop Forged 52100.

 

[OrangeBlueOrangeBlue]

If you're used to the Hood Punk, I'm not sure the tanto version of the Buck will make you as happy as the spear point might. Tanto grinds, while tough, sacrifice a lot of utility by not having any belly. What do you use it for?

Compared to the Hood Punk, the Turok is significantly larger: 1/2" longer overall (5/8" longer in the blade), thicker blade stock, about 40% heavier (7.4oz vs 11.88oz). Meanwhile, the GCK is 1/2" shorter than the Hood Punk (only 1/8" shorter in the blade though), with thicker blade stock, and weighs 9.9oz.

Welcome to Bladeforums!

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/5160-vs-1095.472182/

I would expect the 5160 to be better then 1095 in rust resistance. Kabars 1095 CroVan is certainly a tried and true steel tho. I don't think the gap between the two is huge.

If I had to choose between the two, I'd go Buck. 5.5" blade is about the perfect size imo. The micarta handles look nice.

If the $30 price difference is important, there is nothing wrong with the Kabar either. Plenty of Kabar/Becker fans here at BFs.

A few other budget options to consider. Linked to BHQ for easy reference.

https://www.bladehq.com/item--Cold-Steel-SRK-Search-Rescue-Fixed--52053
SK-5 similar to 1080. Yes it will rust if not taken care of but that goes for 1095 and others as well. Great knife for the money. Pair it with a Mora (stainless) for food prep and you'd be around $60 before s/h.

https://www.bladehq.com/item--Steel-Will-Roamer-Fixed-Blade-Knife--77143
D2 about 12% chromium. Close to stainless steel but can and will rust. Best rust resistance of anything mentioned so far. Very tough. Can chip and be tough to sharpen (not bad with diamond plates).

Google "Terava Jaakaripuukko" and look at the reviews around here and youtube. Another contender for best bang for the buck knife. Shorter then you want maybe.

If the Puuko-style knife works, but you want a longer blade, Benchmade is coming out with a 5.2" version of their Puuko: 5.2" blade, 9.7" overall, 3V steel, 5.31oz.

 

[FoxHound21048]

Well now ive been doing more research and broadening my choices, however the reasons for carry are the same (self defense/medium survival) so i want fast and hard to break somewhere in the 5 to 7 inch range.

Been looking at the Gerber Strongarm plain blade in fde.
4.9 inch 420hc made in USA
Full tang with rubber overmold handles and glass breaker pommel. 70 dollars.
I like it but Im not excited by this knife, but in a way i feel like that could be a good thing as if i ever have to need it i wont be hurt about fucking it up, although i would rather have a knife i loved that was pretty hard to fuck up. Ive owned this knife before, never did hard shit with it as i considered 420hc to be more light duty.

Another option i considered was the Cold Steel Leatherneck in D2. 6.8inch blade, comes in either tanto or straight clip point. Has much stronger tang than conventional kabar USMC style knives. DLC coating, grivex handles?, and securex sheath which i would like to use for just the main plastic part. Not sure how this knife would do vs gerber strongarm. I feel like it is functional and reliable. D2 is less worrysome than affore mentioned 5160 and 1095cv in the corrosion department. Also 70 dollars. Not my favorite knife, but i like it similar to the gerber.

A wierd option that i cant get out of my head though is the Steel Will Dark Angel!
N690co high saber grind, slight drop point. And it has a very similar contour and shape as my old buck hood punk. I only worry about how much abure a high saber grind could take, so id probably try not to use it for allot of shit, just carry mostly for self defense.

So out of all of the old and new choices sings to you and why?

 

[Velitrius]

If you are concerned about corrosion resistance, then don't rule out the Strongarm in 420HC.

Real corrosion resistant, tough, easy to get sharp. You're concerned the steel might be light duty... I'm not.

I had the Turok as well, and it's a fine knife. Same blade thickness as the Strongarm, comparable sheaths, a bit bigger.

Got the Turok for a B.O.B. knife, but father-in-law loved it, so I gave it to him.

Won't comment on any of the pieces in context of a "fighting knife". I am not a knife fighter.

 

[GeofS]

For a stock blade, the Turok comes with a sheath that is very well done.

 

[Smiling]

Tanto grinds, while tough, sacrifice a lot of utility by not having any belly. What do you use it for?

In my experience it's not too much of an issue if the tanto blade has a sweep, and toughness and durability of tanto knives together with it's shape itself are excellent for industrial applications.

I love tanto knives, and I used Recon Tanto quite a lot for everything and anything. But I'm not a hunter, survivalist or camper. I used it at work at construction site, I use it for weekend projects at home and stuff I'll do in my garage, I also use it to chop bushes around my yard and to hack some stuff...

So it comes down to your needs (and wishes), so while the tanto knife is excellent choice for me, it might not be an excellent choice for you. And the same goes other way around, while for example clip point might be a good choice for someone else, it wouldn't be a good choice for me.

 

[FoxHound21048]

I agree with you on tantos. My first knife was a "smith and wesson" folting tanto. My second was a crkt m16-14zlek. I love the secondary point for edging stuff out. The width of the spine to the tip made it very strong.

As far as what i look for in a fighting knife, i look for 3 things, ballance, strength, and handle geometry.
Ballance - in transitioning hand positions, and just making the knife move faster, i like the balance point to be located between the top edge of the handle and the bottom of the knife edge (like about where the finger choil would be on a knife equipped with one.
Strength - i like a knife with either a mid saber grind or high flat grind with a tip that would not break or loose too much edge if thrust into a loaded ar15 magazine. And if not stainless than i like a slick blade coating that offers minimal resistance and will wear like nails.

Handle geometry - i like a knife that is used in tactical applications to be able to be held in reverse grip with blade facing away from my arm, and reverse grip while blade is facing my forearm ( it is better for stabbing than blade out, as it maximizes your wrist strength and cuts better as it works with the radius of the forearm (look at animal claws, most are aligned inward, as they have more cutting power on the retreat of the paw durring a slash.) Finally the handle must be secureable in hand during a spear like thrust with the blade up alligned allongthe direction of my forearm. For the last part i like a geometry more similar to the buck hood punk, or the crkt FTWS, or the steel will dark angel.

My max expenditure limit is about $120

 

[Smiling]

I agree with you on tantos. My first knife was a "smith and wesson" folting tanto. My second was a crkt m16-14zlek. I love the secondary point for edging stuff out. The width of the spine to the tip made it very strong.

As far as what i look for in a fighting knife, i look for 3 things, ballance, strength, and handle geometry.
Ballance - in transitioning hand positions, and just making the knife move faster, i like the balance point to be located between the top edge of the handle and the bottom of the knife edge (like about where the finger choil would be on a knife equipped with one.
Strength - i like a knife with either a mid saber grind or high flat grind with a tip that would not break or loose too much edge if thrust into a loaded ar15 magazine. And if not stainless than i like a slick blade coating that offers minimal resistance and will wear like nails.

Handle geometry - i like a knife that is used in tactical applications to be able to be held in reverse grip with blade facing away from my arm, and reverse grip while blade is facing my forearm ( it is better for stabbing than blade out, as it maximizes your wrist strength and cuts better as it works with the radius of the forearm (look at animal claws, most are aligned inward, as they have more cutting power on the retreat of the paw durring a slash.) Finally the handle must be secureable in hand during a spear like thrust with the blade up alligned allongthe direction of my forearm. For the last part i like a geometry more similar to the buck hood punk, or the crkt FTWS, or the steel will dark angel.

My max expenditure limit is about $120

What's the blade lenght you're aiming at?

 

[FoxHound21048]

Im looking for 5 and a half to 7 inches in length. Doesnt have to be a tanto. Open to opinion on blade steels too. I feel like i put myself in a box with my original post.

 

[FoxHound21048]

Well, i decided when i reread all of my posts that when i add all of those things up, and when i really want is to replace my knife with one that feels the same or similar, i cannot help but see the Buck hood punk in the Ontario TFI. The sheath sucks, but hey i dont mind making one, i have allot of time now to figure it out.

 

[dirc]

considering you're ok with alternatives, check out the mora 3 classic, with a 6" blade, (similar to 1095, but imho better) - so it's not stainless

the best part is they're around $22
the plastic sheath is surprisingly useful, and easy to wrap in nice leather to get a great looking sheath

the handle may look simple, but they're consistently one of the best in terms of comfort & long use, and sanding it to refinish / reshape the wood is one of the best projects you can do on a mora : )

 

[FoxHound21048]

I just ordered the Ontario Ranger TFI through amazon for $83 shipped. I probably could have done something more exotic, but the basic contour and flat grind of the american made 5160 knife makes me feel like it is picking up where i left off with the buck knife i lost.

Just want to do a few things, namely removing handle scales and sanding them down thinner if need, possibly removing coating and ceracoating it (depending on how i like the finish), and definitely making a kydex sheath for it, or just getting the grizzly custom one. Idk yet. Maybe a leather sheath if built well enough.

 

[FoxHound21048]

So i just got my ontario TFI yesterday!

So upon opening it up i found a very stout 1/4 inch thick knife with very stout 3/8 inch thick handle scales. The swooping tail with the lanyard hole has thus far proved usefull for holding the tail end for chopping. The blade edge needs a slight reprofile to cut anything more delicate than a log. Prolly a project knife b4 edc.

Things i wanna work on are:
I would like to either make thinner walnut scales for the handles, or thin down the existing grip scales.

Second i would like to either make or get a kydex sheath or a leather one that encompasses 1/3 of the grip (as opposed to a snap closure style sheath) to make reverse grip right hand draw as fast as poasible.

Finally the last thing i want to do is get ot cerakoted