1095 file knife temper\ hardening one shot

N

North woods Knives

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Feb 25, 2014
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Hey guys just joined the forum! I've been fiddling around with trying to make file knives over the past year but the temper \ heating treat has kind of left me in the dust. So far I have doing things the hard way literally and grinding the file as is then tempering afterwards . I have been doing some research and came up with something I think might work! So I am by no means certain about this and would like you guys input but after annealing could i temper\harden it in one shot by putting it in the oven at 450 for a couple hours and then quenching it in water. Should i stick to the anneal, harden, temper method or should I just temper and grind. I think all of these methods would work to some degree but I Want to know what you guys think.:confused::confused:
 
Hey guys just joined the forum! I've been fiddling around with trying to make file knives over the past year but the temper \ heating treat has kind of left me in the dust. So far I have doing things the hard way literally and grinding the file as is then tempering afterwards . I have been doing some research and came up with something I think might work! So I am by no means certain about this and would like you guys input but after annealing could i temper\harden it in one shot by putting it in the oven at 450 for a couple hours and then quenching it in water. Should i stick to the anneal, harden, temper method or should I just temper and grind. I think all of these methods would work to some degree but I Want to know what you guys think.:confused::confused:
 
No water.

The knife makers sub-forum would be the place for this question they will help you out quickly there.
 
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No, that wont work! if you are set on using files, heat them until they are a dull red. do that 3 times. you will be able to cut, file and drill them now. Heat them one shade past nonmagnetic, and quench in warm canola oil. temper 2 times, 2 hours each time.

Look through the stickies, most of your questions will be answered there.
 
Isn't it possible to temper the file down to desired hardness and then work it carefully without getting it too hot so as to not ruin the temper?
 
cigardoghd said:
Isn't it possible to temper the file down to desired hardness and then work it carefully without getting it too hot so as to not ruin the temper?
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Yes. That's where you're finding "one shot" info on the web. You'll have a hard time doing it that way with hand tools if that's what you have, but with a belt grinder it's not too difficult.
 
North woods Knives said:
Hey guys just joined the forum! I've been fiddling around with trying to make file knives over the past year but the temper \ heating treat has kind of left me in the dust. So far I have doing things the hard way literally and grinding the file as is then tempering afterwards . I have been doing some research and came up with something I think might work! So I am by no means certain about this and would like you guys input but after annealing could i temper\harden it in one shot by putting it in the oven at 450 for a couple hours and then quenching it in water. Should i stick to the anneal, harden, temper method or should I just temper and grind. I think all of these methods would work to some degree but I Want to know what you guys think.:confused::confused:
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By heating it to 450 F a couple of times you are re-tempering the file. You are making it a little softer and easier to work. When you place it in water at this temperature, you are just cooling it off. A lot of knives have been made in this manner. It will take some elbow grease because the steel will still be plenty hard. Spot annealing it is where you get a small area red hot and cool it slowly. This is so you might be able to drill a hole in the tang for the handle.
 
Right, what Bo said. Something I missed the first time... Your red text... first two words... "After annealing." If you are going to temper then grind, you don't anneal first, you just temper down the existing hardness. If you're going to re do the heat treat altogether, you anneal first, then harden, then temper.
 
ken1111 said:
I usually temper at 420-435. Usually get a straw yellow and a purpleish color.
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+1:thumbup:

depends on what type of knife it is but generally you want a dark straw/purple and blue.

For choppers you want a lower RC so more blues and purples. For a skinner or hunter straw and a little purple/blue is what to expect.
 
North woods Knives said:
If color is meaningless and unreliable what do you go by. And why are there so many tempering charts with color shades on them>
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This is a good question. The color charts are for forge tempering. They are, I've read, the colors for iron oxide layers that form on heating. This process of forge or torch tempering is over in a matter of, usually, less than a minute. The process of oven tempering does not give the same results. Therefore, counts comment of, "meaningless and unreliable." Get a good oven thermometer and watch for oven tempering. Bury your blade in preheated sand in said oven to help regulate the changes in temperature.
 
North woods Knives said:
If color is meaningless and unreliable what do you go by. And why are there so many tempering charts with color shades on them>
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We go by confirming the temperature. Color charts exist as a rough guideline. Many many factors like surface contamination can easily fudge heat/oxide colors and make them unreliable.
 
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