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1095 heat treat
- Thread starter S knive's
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
- Messages
- 3,375
Read the part where its says Good info here. Third thread from the top. Its alphabetical, so go to Heat treating. This same question is asked almost weekly, I am not trying to be a hard ass here. You can find out way way more about it by reading the stickys than you can by just asking. Plus, it shows you are willing to make the effort necessary to make a good blade. Thank you Jim
Last edited:
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2004
- Messages
- 38,524
First, welcome to the BF.
Not much info in your profile, so it is hard to give a complete answer.( You might want to fill out the rest of the information. Without it I'll assume you are a high school student just starting to make knives, and having little equipment.)
The quick and simple answer is that 1095 is not the best steel for a back yard HT.
It should be austerities at 1475F and soaked for about 5 minutes. Quench in fast oil (eg.,parks#50) ,temper twice at 400-450F.
For the ultimate simple quench you can use water or brine, but the failure rate (breaks,cracks, and micro-cracks) is high. Few makers use water or brine. The real trick is to use the PROPER quench oil.....not just whatever you can find in the garage. You will read a lot of posts about chaps that use ATF, Canola oil, peanut oil,bear grease,etc.......That compares to reading a story about a fire-fighter who did an amputation with a pocket knife, using whiskey for both antiseptic and anesthetic. It may work (sort of) but the proper procedures are sure a lot better....and more reliable.
There have been many threads on this material and subject. Pleas read the stickies, as suggested. To search for threads on the forums, use this search engine ( make a bookmark or tab for it,you will use it a lot):
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra
Stacy
Not much info in your profile, so it is hard to give a complete answer.( You might want to fill out the rest of the information. Without it I'll assume you are a high school student just starting to make knives, and having little equipment.)
The quick and simple answer is that 1095 is not the best steel for a back yard HT.
It should be austerities at 1475F and soaked for about 5 minutes. Quench in fast oil (eg.,parks#50) ,temper twice at 400-450F.
For the ultimate simple quench you can use water or brine, but the failure rate (breaks,cracks, and micro-cracks) is high. Few makers use water or brine. The real trick is to use the PROPER quench oil.....not just whatever you can find in the garage. You will read a lot of posts about chaps that use ATF, Canola oil, peanut oil,bear grease,etc.......That compares to reading a story about a fire-fighter who did an amputation with a pocket knife, using whiskey for both antiseptic and anesthetic. It may work (sort of) but the proper procedures are sure a lot better....and more reliable.
There have been many threads on this material and subject. Pleas read the stickies, as suggested. To search for threads on the forums, use this search engine ( make a bookmark or tab for it,you will use it a lot):
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra
Stacy
Stacy, this is up there for me on my list of all-time favorite analogies.
:thumbup:Josh
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2004
- Messages
- 1,477
Below is what I did (yesterday actually), based on reading everything I could. This is my first knife and first attempt at heat treating anything, so take the information for what its worth. :jerkit:
_________________________________________________________________
I did the heat treat last night and as far as I can tell everything went well.
I used the old wood stove that I have in my garage and some charcoal briquettes, along with a few small chucks of wood towards the end when my coals were getting low. The stove has a bout a 4 inch gap under the actual perforated burning surface where the ashes typically fall. I took a piece of copper pipe and capped (read squeezed in the vice) one end and then drilled some 1/4" holes in it. I then hooked this up to small electric air pump that I have and inserted that end of the pipe under the coals. Using intermittant blasts of air, I had no problems getting the blade hot enough. I did two normalizing cycles where I heated to non-magnetic and then let cool to the point where I could handle the blade without gloves. Then on the third time heating, once it got up to non-magnetic I quenched in automatic transmission fluid, which was pre-heated to 130*F.
Afterwards the blade didn't look real pretty, but the Nicholson files I used to profile the blade did not grab on it, so it seems hard enough to me. After a little clean up I did one temper cycle in the oven @ 375-400 for a little more than an hour. I'll probably do another cycle or two before I am done
I guess worth adding is that while in the fire, I kept the blade vertical with the spine down to try to get even heat to both sides, and when quenching I put it in the oil blade first and held it there until cool enough to touch, a couple minutes maybe.
By no means am I claiming that this is the best way to heat treat 1095, but it is the best procedure I could come up with based on what I read here and other places, and what I had available to me. It seemed to work, but the knife is not finished, nor have I sharpened it fully or cut anything with it, aside from whittling some shavings off a paint stick, so I can't really tell you at this point how well it even worked. Follow at your own risk I guess.
_________________________________________________________________
I did the heat treat last night and as far as I can tell everything went well.
I used the old wood stove that I have in my garage and some charcoal briquettes, along with a few small chucks of wood towards the end when my coals were getting low. The stove has a bout a 4 inch gap under the actual perforated burning surface where the ashes typically fall. I took a piece of copper pipe and capped (read squeezed in the vice) one end and then drilled some 1/4" holes in it. I then hooked this up to small electric air pump that I have and inserted that end of the pipe under the coals. Using intermittant blasts of air, I had no problems getting the blade hot enough. I did two normalizing cycles where I heated to non-magnetic and then let cool to the point where I could handle the blade without gloves. Then on the third time heating, once it got up to non-magnetic I quenched in automatic transmission fluid, which was pre-heated to 130*F.
Afterwards the blade didn't look real pretty, but the Nicholson files I used to profile the blade did not grab on it, so it seems hard enough to me. After a little clean up I did one temper cycle in the oven @ 375-400 for a little more than an hour. I'll probably do another cycle or two before I am done
I guess worth adding is that while in the fire, I kept the blade vertical with the spine down to try to get even heat to both sides, and when quenching I put it in the oil blade first and held it there until cool enough to touch, a couple minutes maybe.
By no means am I claiming that this is the best way to heat treat 1095, but it is the best procedure I could come up with based on what I read here and other places, and what I had available to me. It seemed to work, but the knife is not finished, nor have I sharpened it fully or cut anything with it, aside from whittling some shavings off a paint stick, so I can't really tell you at this point how well it even worked. Follow at your own risk I guess.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2006
- Messages
- 2,280
Call me sometime when you get the time, and I will be happy to go over it with you all for free. But make sure you take note's. :thumbup:
Many problems here. Non-magnetic is not hot enough. A file is no guarantee that the blade is properly hardened. The key word being "properly". Go back and re-read what BLADSMTH said, and take it as gospel. 1095 is a simple steel, but requires more than a simple heat treat. Unless you have heat control, the right quenchant, and a bit of real knowledge, it is to be avoided.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
- Messages
- 3,375
I have been think about this post today. Ha ha been working on a 1095 blade. Anyway, I was a bit short. Had been reading several threads on 1095 HT and all. Anyway if S knives wants a good HT on a 1095 I will run it thru my oven and a Parks 50 quench. All you got to do is mail it to me and send return postage and it will be as hard as it gets. If I am tempering I will give it the full meal deal. If not a quick hit of 400f for a half hour to knock the stress out and you can finish the temper when it gets back.