1095 in the cold

C

Capt R

Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
93
Since all ESEE knives are 1095 steel, how does that steel handle cold weather? Can it get briddle and if so, at what tempature? Should I have any concerns with Kydex in the cold? I am no steel expert and was curious how my survival knife (once purchased) will handle different climates.
 
I live in wisconsin and have used both my esee 6 and 3, as low as 5degrees with out a problems. i was using them for battoning fire wood and field dressing a deer. Im not sure what they can truly handle but i can tell you ive never had a problem.
 
Here's some good technical info on steel use and abuse I found in a reference in another forum:

http://www.ndt-ed.org/EducationResources/CommunityCollege/Materials/Mechanical/Toughness.htm

(Some things to keep in mind when you're trying to baton through frozen wood.)

"There are several variables that have a profound influence on the toughness of a material. These variables are:
Strain rate (rate of loading)
Temperature
Notch effect

A metal may possess satisfactory toughness under static loads but may fail under dynamic loads or impact. As a rule ductility and, therefore, toughness decrease as the rate of loading increases. Temperature is the second variable to have a major influence on its toughness. As temperature is lowered, the ductility and toughness also decrease. The third variable is termed notch effect, has to due with the distribution of stress. A material might display good toughness when the applied stress is uniaxial; but when a multiaxial stress state is produced due to the presence of a notch, the material might not withstand the simultaneous elastic and plastic deformation in the various directions."
 
I have carried an RC-3 and Izula in Alaska at -45F with no ill effect. Biggest issue is when you bring them back inside and they end up coated in frost. Just have to make sure to take them out of the sheath and dry them off.
 
Most of the natives up here use knives made from less tough steels than 1095. They have no problems in sub zero weather. They don’t do stupid things with their knives however. They might cut and skin at minus 40, but they wouldn’t use their knives for chopping something at that temp. But then, they don’t chop much of anything with their knives, they have axes. (Smart people.)

The biggest problem I’ve had with knives at very low temps, (-20 to -70), is the lubricated pivot on folders. They get really sloowww at those temps, even straight out of a warm pocket. If anybody knows of a lube that works at those temps, let me know. I tried everything under the sun including Mil-tech and Tuf-Glide.

Years ago Ron Hood demonstrated chopping a frozen elk bone with a TOPS Anaconda. The knife came through unscathed. That was 1095, similar to ESEE. It was also a pretty thick edge.

Personally, I don’t push any knives too hard when it gets really cold. If you decide to try and baton a knotty, frozen log, then you deserve to suffer a broken knife. Most smaller timber breaks easily at those temps anyway. When you see some guy on youtube bust his knife while batoning a frozen log, just laugh and remind yourself never to repeat his mistake.
 
bearcut said:
The biggest problem I’ve had with knives at very low temps, (-20 to -70), is the lubricated pivot on folders. They get really sloowww at those temps, even straight out of a warm pocket. If anybody knows of a lube that works at those temps, let me know. I tried everything under the sun including Mil-tech and Tuf-Glide.
Click to expand...

At those temperatures, you're better off with a dry lubricant like graphite powder.
 
artmichalek said:
At those temperatures, you're better off with a dry lubricant like graphite powder.
Click to expand...
Tuff-glide is a dry powder.
It doesn't work well at those temps.

I must mention, I have the most problems with coated blade folders. They seem to get stickier at low temps than uncoated blades. The dry lubes seem to "gum up" with that combination of coated blade/cold temps. It's weird.

No biggie. it is best to move slow in those conditions anyway. I've just learned to open my knives with two hands if need be.
 
bearcut said:
Tuff-glide is a dry powder.
It doesn't work well at those temps.

I must mention, I have the most problems with coated blade folders. They seem to get stickier at low temps than uncoated blades. The dry lubes seem to "gum up" with that combination of coated blade/cold temps. It's weird.

No biggie. it is best to move slow in those conditions anyway. I've just learned to open my knives with two hands if need be.
Click to expand...

Tuf-Glide isn't a powder, it's a dry film lubricant that bonds to the metal.

Not sure why you would have issues with that though. Maybe try a lubricant that is has an extremely low viscosity at room temp, assuming it will thicken as the temperature goes down.

Or you could try some sub zero lubricant
 
I've batoned in temps down to about 0*F and had zero issues with anything breaking on me. I was thinking that I shouldn't do it. But I thought if I had to do it, I wanted to make sure it could handle it. Passed with flying colors.
 
bearcut said:
Tuff-glide is a dry powder.
It doesn't work well at those temps.

I must mention, I have the most problems with coated blade folders. They seem to get stickier at low temps than uncoated blades. The dry lubes seem to "gum up" with that combination of coated blade/cold temps. It's weird.

No biggie. it is best to move slow in those conditions anyway. I've just learned to open my knives with two hands if need be.
Click to expand...


If you haven't tried graphite powder, I would suggest trying it. Tuf-Glide is a "dry-film lubricant" that apparently goes on wet, according to the manufacturer-- have never used it myself, though; I try to stay in warmer, or less dusty, areas that don't need dry-film lubricant. Does it actually go on dry? Or is it powder suspended in a "quick-drying" carrier?

I have used graphite powder. If you're not familiar with it, it is just that. Powder. Never wet. Messy as h*** to apply, IME. But it works, stays put, and is slicker than anything else I've encountered on metal surfaces.
 
I had no problems with any of my high carbon blades last winter, and they got some pretty extensive workouts. I was living in an uncompleted cabin in a winter haven and often relied on fires and other typical camp activities for day to day life.
 
In regular use, you'll be fine down to temps that'll drive you inside long before your blade gets brittle. I've beat cheap mil-spec survival knives through lumber at -50 and colder. As long as you're not prying with the blade, you're good to go.
The only temperature related failure with a knife I've ever experienced was an MOD auto that blew apart in my pocket when the screws spontaneously loosened during a jump. It was about -30 on the ground, and probably 30 degrees colder at altitude.

EDIT: On the subject of lubes in arctic conditions, I've always made a fall ritual of cleaning up my carry knives. Clean out all of the old lube with penetrating oil/solvent and re-lube with TW-25B (which goes on all my carry guns every winter too). The trick is to really clean out any pocket lint and mung from the summer. I take apart my folders down to the last screw (which gets a drop of LocTite red now).
I have a Microtech Lightfoot LCC (leaf spring) that opens like lightning at any temperature. My coil sprung auto's seem a little slower in the cold, but I think that's a function of the spring steel properties and not the lubricant.
 
Last edited:
rockspyder said:
I have used graphite powder. If you're not familiar with it, it is just that. Powder. Never wet. Messy as h*** to apply, IME. But it works, stays put, and is slicker than anything else I've encountered on metal surfaces.
Click to expand...

You can also get graphite in a liquid suspension (Lock Ease), which is only messy as heck to apply;). It wicks into tight spots, then the solvent evaporates.
 
rockspyder said:
If you haven't tried graphite powder, I would suggest trying it. Tuf-Glide is a "dry-film lubricant" that apparently goes on wet, according to the manufacturer-- have never used it myself, though; I try to stay in warmer, or less dusty, areas that don't need dry-film lubricant. Does it actually go on dry? Or is it powder suspended in a "quick-drying" carrier?

I have used graphite powder. If you're not familiar with it, it is just that. Powder. Never wet. Messy as h*** to apply, IME. But it works, stays put, and is slicker than anything else I've encountered on metal surfaces.
Click to expand...

Tuf-Glide is a powder suspended in a "quick-drying" carrier. As Josh says, it’s a dry film lubricant.
The troops use it a lot in the sandbox. It doesn’t attract silt and sand.
I am well acquainted with graphite powder. Your right, it is messy. (So is “Lock Ease”.)
I’ve found it really doesn’t work any better than Tuff-Glide at super low temps.
I suspect the problem may be that condensation infiltrates the matrix of any dry lube. At those temps, the moisture instantly freezes and stiffens up the whole mixture. That’s my theory anyway.
I know, I could keep my knife out of my pocket away from my body warmth. But then I have to use a friggen cold knife. I’d rather have a slow opening knife, thank you!
I keep my knives very clean, so that isn’t the issue. We’re talking lube and metal, that’s all.
I have found that NO lubricant of any kind works best at anything below -50.

I’m sure there must be a wet lube that maintains its viscosity at super low temps.
Surely an aerospace company has a line on such products.

Thanks Josh, I may try the Frabill lubricant you suggested. They don’t give much information on the website though. Hopefully it won’t go into my, “that didn’t work either”, lubricant stash!
 
bearcut said:
I’m sure there must be a wet lube that maintains its viscosity at super low temps.
Surely an aerospace company has a line on such products.
Click to expand...

I know TissueTek makes a wet film cryostat lubricant, but it's way to expensive to buy just to try out. There might be a molybdenum disulfide grease with a low enough operating temperature. That would keep moisture out.

I'm starting to wonder if it's not the lubricant at all. 300 series stainless steels have a higher coefficient of thermal expansion than most blade alloys. There's a possibility that the pivot bolt on the knife is shrinking more than the blade and that's what's causing it to bind up.
 
Actually, you might be onto something there. However, I think it may be the pivot hole contracting circumferentially more than the pivot is contracting in diameter (in extreme cold the materials would contract). I seem to remember from a materials or thermo class (or something) the opposite, when like metals were heated, the circumference of a hot hoop expanded greater than the diameter of a hot cylinder, so that the cylinder, which previously had no hope of fitting in the hoop, then fit perfectly. In extreme cold the contraction theoretically could cause the pivot-point to bind.
 
rockspyder said:
Actually, you might be onto something there. However, I think it may be the pivot hole contracting circumferentially more than the pivot is contracting in diameter (in extreme cold the materials would contract). I seem to remember from a materials or thermo class (or something) the opposite, when like metals were heated, the circumference of a hot hoop expanded greater than the diameter of a hot cylinder, so that the cylinder, which previously had no hope of fitting in the hoop, then fit perfectly. In extreme cold the contraction theoretically could cause the pivot-point to bind.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking more about the length of the pivot screw. When the knife gets cold the screw gets shorter by more than the blade gets thinner, since it has a higher expansion coefficient. That compresses the blade between the liners. I don't know if it's enough to affect function, but that's a very precise fit to begin with.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top