1095 questions... put down the torches and pitchforks!

C

ChrispyFur

Joined
Jun 15, 2015
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Hello BF, long time lurker and I think I've posted a thing or two.

Been toying with the idea of making knives for well over a year and FINALLY got around to doing my very first two knives. I really wish I could celebrate buuuuuut neither blade got finished and both got broken. :(

I'm trying to do the typical drop point hunter, 4 or 4.5 inch blade. I'm using 1095 steel, 1/8th thick. I am heat treating at full thickness as well, no bevels ground in as I'm quenching in water. (don't hurt me!)

My issues I know are my own fault completely, I was asking the metal to behave in ways it didn't want to and I broke the blades. I broke them while trying to fix a slight warp.

On both blades I heated them with a propane "flamethrower" (for lack of a better word, got it at Harbor Freight). I used some cinder blocks to make a makeshift forge. I did my best to make sure I heated both sides of the blade evenly. I heated them to non-magnetic and then just a touch longer. I paid very close attention to the color of the steel to make sure it looked VERY even all around before I quenched. I quenched into warm water, within one second of pulling the blade from the heat. Also, I made sure to not move the blade side to side but forward and back in a slicing motion.

The first blade made it to a temper cycle before I broke it, did 2 hours at 450F. The second blade I broke before it got to the oven.

My first blade was able to flex quite a bit before I broke it. I should have used a bit of heat to get it to straighten while applying a slight overcorrection in the vice? I'm not 100% sure the technique I should employ here. I was able to have the first blade tested after I broke it and was told it was "59.9 Rockwell".

The grain in both knives at the break is VERY tight. It almost looks like powdered metal. Both blades were able to skate a file with no issues at all. The steel doesn't even really sound like steel anymore, but it sounds like a ceramic tile when you click the pieces together.

So, basically I am curious how my failures stack up to what I should expect out of a heat treat. How do you guys think I did? I honestly can't wait to try again!

I'll try to post some pics tomorrow if you guys would like to see them.
 
I don't try to straighten that way anymore. The first blade, after the first temper, you would have been better off clamping it against another bar of steel with .030-040" of shim under the warp, so when clamping it flat you get a slight over bend, then put the whole works in your oven for the temper cycle. More often than not it will come out straight as an arrow.

It's just too easy to go that little bit too far in a vise.

You did fine, working with the equipment you had, but it's unlikely that even with a good 60 RC you're getting the benefit of the extra carbon available in 1095 without a proper soak. The blade would have been about as capable as a 1080/1084 blade. Which is fine if you understand that going into it.
 
Yeah, I bought the steel quite a while ago before having a good handle on what I need to do... not that I do now either, lol

I will be buying some 1084 once this steel is used up, I've read through enough forum bantering about 1095 to know that I will not be using it again until I have at least a little bit more specialized equipment and knowledge!

Thanks for the advice on straightening, I will certainly put it to use!

I also think that I will do two temper cycles and shoot for more of a 56-57 RC with the steel I have left.
 
There was nothing wrong with the hardness you were at. It would have been a good cutter. 56-57 is a bit low unless you really intend to abuse the knife.

And like I said, you aren't going to ruin the 1095 or have some kind of catastrophe doing it the way you're doing it. Hell, I've edge quenched 1095 with a torch on a couple kukris and they're still going strong.
 
Right on, thanks again for the input. I did notice I was able to get the blade to flex quite a lot more than I had expected to be able to at that hardness, and I was quite surprised at the "memory" of the steel. When I loosened the vice up it went right back to the warp it had.

I'll be following your Instagram BTW
 
Thanks for the follow.

Hardened, tempered steel is essentially a spring. You either have to drastically over bend it to fix it, at room temp, which will likely create at least some fatigue if successful, or heat it to a more pliable condition, hence the over bend and temper method.
 
Per JT's advice,

Clamping it to a dead straight piece of heavy bar stock right out of quench before the first temper and it should be perfect.

Just another way of doing it.
 
When i have an excessive warp, I clamp the blade to a heavy piece of angle iron that I have. I use pocket change as shims to get it where I want it and then it goes back into the temper oven.
 
This is the first time I read where somebody quenched in warm water. I have read brine is an option but not plain water (maybe it is but I have not seen it before). And if you use brine there is a big chance your blade will brake. Maybe try using canola oil.
 
MBurks said:
Per JT's advice,

Clamping it to a dead straight piece of heavy bar stock right out of quench before the first temper and it should be perfect.

Just another way of doing it.
Click to expand...

It does work good, but if the bow or warp is large then flexing it that much can snap it. A trick I use is to clamp it to the bar like I was going to straighten it in the tempering oven. But don't clamp it all the way straight put some pressure on the blade but not a lot. Then put it in the oven and start the temper. Once the blade reaches temp reach in with a gloved hand and tighten down the clamp so the blade is straight and finish out the 2 hr temper.
 
Thanks JT for the advice. My warp wasn't really that bad in this blade, the main reason it broke was my inexperience. The overall warp I'd say was under 1/4" - if you laid the handle flat down the tip was less than that high off a flat surface... trying to explain so it makes the most sense.

The idea of adjusting the warp throughout the temper cycle had crossed my mind as pre-temper I'm pretty sure it wouldn't flex that much without snapping! Nice to know someone with real world experience does it that very way.
 
Yes, in those two attempts I used just plain warm water. I will be buying canola oil to use before my next attempts... just a couple more days until I can get back out in the shop!

I've been obsessing over giving this another try all week. I'm pretty excited :)
 
ChrispyFur said:
Yes, in those two attempts I used just plain warm water. I will be buying canola oil to use before my next attempts... just a couple more days until I can get back out in the shop!

I've been obsessing over giving this another try all week. I'm pretty excited :)
Click to expand...

Any reason you're not adding salt for a brine solution? I'd be worried about vapor jacket with just plain water. Yes, you may break a couple, but you'll likely get some better results.
Canola works fine as well, though not as fast. Be sure to pre-heat to about 120-130F before quenching your blade.
 
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