1095 steel/hardening/quenching

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I go a little hardcore in testing, I carve brass and mild steel with my "keeper" blades to test edge retention. If it won't cut after shaving the corner off a piece of mild or brass it won't hold up to the way some of my customers use their knives. I'm with Rick though, putting a knife in a vise and trying to snap it is not a real life test (unless your real life includes an ABS journeyman test). 15 years ago one of my personal knives really did cut open the door of a 1980 Chrysler LeBaron (the locks froze solid and it was the only way to get home so for me cutting mild steel in an emergency was real life, so now I kind of expect that an EDC should)

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Some thoughts on destructive testing, when I really dont like how a blade turned out I will cut bang and bend until there is nothing left. Another way to do testing is to put small pieces of the same steel into your heat treat process, you can even grind a edge on them to try cutting. When I do 1095 or 1084 I will usually cut at least 4 to test for each batch of knives. I put them along side the blades in the oven and then try with a different quench and temper.
 
Patrickknives,
You usually make 4 test coupons for every batch of 1095/1084 and change up quenches and tempers?

What are some of the different quenches and tempers?
What are you heat treating in?

It just seems a little excessive to test coupons with every batch unless your standard quenching process is uncontrolled. These days, I mostly wait for a knife to be less than sellable(cosmetically) to do destructive testing. Unless I am using a new type of steel or changing my HT process.

Maybe I am misinterpreting your statement.... what do you consider a batch?
 
Rick Marchand said:
It is widely accepted that knives should be able to cut things... that shouldn't be a difficult achievement. The challenge lies in how long they can keep cutting.
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Rick, I have a drawer full of butter knives I've never had to sharpen once.... I guess that means they were properly heat treated.

Never had one break either.

I've quenched 1095 in water. They do get a little harder than in vegetable oil, but I've never thought the difference was worth the risk, especially if you just want the knife to cut things and perform the way it was intended to.

I can only conclude that the industrial standards and metallurgical ideals aren’t the end all of end alls. Not that they can't help. I think they often can and do, but not always, not in every scenario... Sometimes they are misleading. It becomes obvious when the "standards" and "ideals" are held above common sence and real world knife performance.
 
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I'd be willing to bet that 99.9 percent of all blade failure comes about through unrealistic expectations and knife abuse,... brought about through mumbo jumbo and hype.
 
Just because a knife can chop through mild steel, doesn't mean it should,... or that doing so hasn't weakened or done some type of internal damage that will lead to failure down the road.

... or that, just because a blade can bend back and forth in a vice, doesn't mean it should.

Just common sense.
 
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I'm all for hardcore testing, but using it as marketing hype or bragging rights is going too far in my opinion. It just leads to foolish knife abuse in the field.

I made that mistake once a long time and learned a lot from it. You never know how people are going to take that sort of stuff. It can be very misleading and come back to haunt you.
 
RyanW said:
Does Science scare you Tai?
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No, actually science and math were my best subjects in grade school and high school. I love real science!

What worries me is the abuse of science, science without ethics, scientism, science as marketing hype, science as myth making and stuff like that... science gone bad.

It happens all the time in the real world. Just look around...
 
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What worries me is the abuse of science, science without ethics, scientism, science as marketing hype and stuff like that... science gone bad.
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I haven't seen that in this thread, Tai. In your disdain toward the abuse of science(which I agree with) you seem to be attacking science, itself. I say this because even when the most basic metallurgical reference is made, you get very confrontational.
 
Rick Marchand said:
I haven't seen that in this thread, Tai. In your disdain toward the abuse of science(which I agree with) you seem to be attacking science, itself. I say this because even when the most basic metallurgical reference is made, you get very confrontational.
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I make basic metallurgical references all the time, not so sure where you are coming from.

… you seem to be getting defensive.
 
I'm not talking to/about you specifically Rick, so just relax O.K.?

... If you want me to talk about you I will though. ;) LOL


(apology accepted.) :)
 
Tai Goo said:
As far as I know, the industry standard for 1095 is "water",... which just goes to show that those types of industry standards may or may not even apply to what you are trying to accomplish. Water is the standard and everything else is alternative.

Facts are easy to find if you just do some searching on the internet, but it's how you interpret, filter and apply them that's the important thing in the long run, and just because such and such works for someone else, it may or may not work for you.

... Don't be intimidated by a bunch of metallurgical gibberish from other knifemakers, which is all most of it is designed to do...

You are correct in that there is no definite answer for everyone, (or every set of circumstances), but you can find the answers for yourself,... what meets your personal prerequisites, what works and what doesn't.

When it gets down to opinions on what is good, better or "best", it becomes more subjective than objective, and less scientific than philosophical.

One person's "good" may be better than another person's "best".
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good grief........

hey, why don't we just don't resort back to esoteric wizardry......because it's just so darn easy and archiac.
Doing things properly isn't always the easiest, some require that thing called research and reading.

For once tai, put your money where your mouth is and point out some of this "metallurgical gibberish "
 
I guess I've obviously struck a chord. I think that in itself qualifies my perspective.

... but just look around.
 
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