1095 Steel

[19-3ben]

The cost of the blade steel is seldom a major factor in the cost of the knife.
What you are paying for in the more expensive 1095 knives is the design plus the fit & finish.
Pretty much anyone can make something with a sharp edge.
Making a something that has good balance and feel requires considerably more ability.

I seem to remember reading Jeff Randall talking about that. He said something to the effect of "you could cut things with the lid off a tuna can" but that the design, development, testing, etc... is what makes a good knife.

From the little I've read, 1095 is easy to heat treat properly. The price difference is added profit, that's why TOPS uses 1095 but charges more.

I'll disagree with you there.

Having Rowen build a 1095 knife with excellent fit/finish, micarta scales and a kydex sheath is going to cost more than an import from China or Taiwan with lesser materials and less emphasis on quality control. The price difference is making up for more expensive manufacturing.

 

[scott.livesey]

as a maker, 1095 has issues. since it is called 1095 it can have a wide range of carbon content. there a limited number of distributors, and it seems from reading here and on other forums that the steel bought today may not grind and heat treat the same as the steel bought in May. the heat treat is very critical. i do have some old 1095 kitchen knives and it is easy to make them shaving sharp.

 

[Shotgun]

Is it fair to say that 1095 to carbon steel is what 440C to stainless?

I would say 12c27 would be its stainless counterpart.

Op; For something like carving, it's a toss up and is really what you prefer as far as ease of sharpening vs edge holding. I know I got tired of a relatively soft 1095 while carving a spoon(esee ~56-58). Using a hard o1(mora laminate at ~64) I hogged off lots of wood and the knife barely dulled.

The potential problem I see with some of the new pm stainless steels is reports of being chippy. I've never experienced that but I also don't put lateral force on the edge when carving. Some people do and I'm guessing that's the cause. I dunno but it would explain why some people still think non-stainless holds it's edge longer. My assumption is they just can't use carbide steels because they're popping out the carbides with a side load.

I guess I would say it's still a good steel but I don't believe it's worth a high price tag. If someone is eyeing a $150 tops or esee then I would highly encourage them to go custom. They're just not worth that IMO. And that's talking strictly about the steel/HT used. On the flip side, a mora at $15(in 1095) is well worth it and I own several.

 

[TheEdge01]

Is it fair to say that 1095 to carbon steel is what 440C to stainless?[/QUOTE

It depends a lot on heat treat. Some manufacturers seem to specialize in certain steels, so the same steel may perform differently depending on the method of heat treat. On average, I think 8cr13mov would be a better comparison. Although, I think 1095 from Tops is some of the best on the market.

 

[Alberta Ed]

I've never been disappointed by my knives in high carbon steels like 1095: Solingen, Boker, Blackjack, Mora, Russell (1080), Ivan Campos-made Scandi grind in 1070. All those come pretty close in performance. I keep my Blackjack Campanion in the truck emergency kit in case I ever need to cut apart a vehicle. I think 1095 is used for grader blades, too. Good stuff.

 

[RadialBladeworks]

I've heard that comment before about ESEE blades price, but although I'm an ESEE owner and fan so I could be a little biased , I think there's a reasonable explanation for their relatively higher priced carbon steel blades.

• They do a great job on the blade design overall. They have a really quality sabre grind with great edge geometry--mine can slice vegetables and chop through 5" logs easily, and yes I've really done both, within the last week. And they are known to do a great job on their heat treat.
• They come with a better-than-average factory sheath. Their sheaths are one of the few that, on a production knife when I buy, I just use what they ship rather than buy custom, they're more than adequate for me.
• They have really good micarta handles. Again, not custom quality--and you can also buy aftermarket handles for them--but the vast majority of users on their bigger blades just use the factory micarta handles, they are that good.
• The knives are made in the USA. Many cheap carbon steel blades, like Schrade (which I also like, btw) are made in China.

Bottom line: it's true ESEE ships a higher priced 1095 knife. However IMHO, this is because they do a few things to make it a higher quality complete knife system than some competitors.

You make some valid points. I don't buy many fixed blades so there are some issues I didn't think about. Namely, the sheath.

1095 is the old standby. it's simple ,easy to heat treat, not too expensive, it's a good tough steel, and many people are familiar with it.
I find it to be about the perfect fixed blade steel, however I also love whatever carbon steel imperial used.

Yeah, you make some extremely valid points. I'm a folders guy so I may tend to have an oversimplified consideration of fixed blades and where their value lies.

 

[jdm61]

Couple of points.
1095 is a basic steel, but it is NOT "easy" to HT. One reason that I would never buy a TOPS knife is that I have seen video of how they HT the steel and found it wanting. A lot of commercial 1095 is left too soft IMO. If you want "tougher", choose another steel.
As far as I know Kabar and Becker do not use 1095. They use 170-06/1095 CV/50100B which is probably more similar to W2 in its carbon and vanadium content, but with .6% chromium added which is what 5160 has and a little pink of nickel and tiny tiny amount of moly. My guess is that that chromium was added to make it a bit deeper hardening.

 

[scott.livesey]

I think some makers of basic blades are going to 80CrV2. this is about as basic a blade as you can find. BUT, decent HT and full flat grind of 1/16 steel.

 

[maximus83]

^This is true about 80CrV2. I had never heard about it until recently, but just for an example, Scott Gossman knives offers a large chopper (10" Tusker 2.0) in this steel, and another one of the same size in 3V. No idea what the attributes and differences are.

 

[scott.livesey]

if you look at mass produced knives and all it says is "Chrome-Vanadium" steel, it is probably 80CrV2. Alpha Knife Supply used to market it as 1080+. If you buy a carbon steel bandsaw or jigsaw blade, it is usually this steel. you also see it as the body for saw blades, and as the not cutting side of Bi-Metal bandsaw and jigsaw blades.