1095 vs INFI ??? Real deal?

I have dozens of knives made from all kinds of steels and I was/am a kind of steel snob. I like alot of the new "super steels" out there and use them all. I always looked down on 1095 as the old Kabar USMC steel that was used till something better came along.

I WAS WRONG!!

While camping and practicing my bushcraft skills I picked up a TOPS Urban Defender and an ESEE RC-6. The performance was near unbelieveable. I cut, chopped, batoned(which I never do), just to see how they would hold up, did some food prep, fuzz sticks, and general camp chores and the edges were never damaged and they were still sharp after 7 days in the field. when they did reach a point of needing to be honed, it took about 30 seconds on an EZ-Lap 4 inch stone to bring them back to scary sharp.

I like INFI as well as the CPM steels and anything that resembles a knife and I have a new found respect for 1095. In my opinion, it is a super steel worthy of any kit. Sorry to ramble, but it's humbling to be proven wrong and realize I missed out on alot of great blades due to my snobbish thoughts.

My go to knives are 1095...Jim
 
morgoth said:
I still do not know what magic some "high end" steel has that I will have a need for.
Most steels from 440c and aus8 up will do a fine job for most people.
Hard use knives? what is the steel used in knives used by Butchers and Slaughterhouse workers?
They would be about as hard use as you get for constant use every day, they are a tradesmans tools.
I am not talking about splitting wood etc, that is the job for an Axe.
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While I do not disagree with you per se for normal around the house or town use, some survivalists among us will say that your examples do not include worse case scenarios. Even if you include indiginous people, they are almost always in a tribe or group of some kind so there will be more than one knife. I will never carry an axe when I am out hunting on foot. I have carried a 9" fixed blade just in case. There are many people who want the absolute best, or toughest out there. I believe Jeff has even said that INFI has more lateral strength than 1095. So if you want the absolute toughest because someday you MIGHT have to make a shelter or split a large log with just your knife AND you are by yourself you know your there is a really good chance it will not fail if it is INFI.

Also I want to say that I think the Fusion Battle Mistresses were around $400 when they first came out and now it is collectablility that makes it $600 (My memory could be off). I realize that is still a huge difference. Smaller to medium Busse knives are a great value to me if you can buy them when they first come out. However, I think Busse compares better value wise to the likes of Randall, Dozier, and Chris Reeve not to production companies. I think it took me 16 months to get the Dozier that I ordered.

I have loved knives my whole life and I like all kinds of knives if they fit my hand or the purpose that I want them too. I would be heartbroken if a Busse was stolen out of my truck and that is why a Scrapyard is in there.

However, I have bought many sheaths for Bussekin knives and a sheath with the Junglas features would probably cost around $80-100. I do not think there is any way the Junglas is overpriced. I also think it is a fine knife with good ergos.

Treat it like scopes and handguns.......buy the best you can afford.
 
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ESEE gets my vote hands down. Paying a couple hundred dollars more for a little bit better edge retention and wear resistance and what a more (debatable) comfortable handle? No thanks.

ESEE also has the better warranty and more availability.

Good luck breaking the Junglas.
 
Comparing the common steels likes 440c or 1095 with the "actual high end" steels (in the past 440c was high end, too.).. in the end it comes down to construction (thickness, length..) and the right heat treat.
messer454 said:
So if you want the absolute toughest because someday you MIGHT have to make a shelter or split a large log with just your knife AND you are by yourself you
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...buy an ESEE-5.
 
I have ESEE, Scrapyard and Swamprat knives. These Bussekin knives are SR-101 and not Infi. SR-101 is harder than the hubs of hell but once you get it sharp it stays that way. All are excellent knives and I can't say anything negative about them. I would not get rid of any of them. I would love to have something in Infi but just can't pull the trigger because of cost.
Cheers,
Balding
 
It's no secret that I am a Busse collector. Yes, the fan boy stuff gets old, but in truth, INFI is an amazing steel. It isn't stainless, but it resists corrosion much better than 1095. It is tougher than 1095. But 1095 with a good heat treat is tough enough for anything most us will ever need a knife for. I have always liked 1095. The ESEE knives I have get more use than my Busses. The best thing about them is the high quality for the price. As I continue my downward recession-driven spiral from Busses to ESSEs, who knows where I'll end up. Maybe I'll turn into a Beckerhead, because I just can't see paying $300 to $500 for the latest release of Busse Custom Shop steak knives. Been looking real hard at those Condor knives. :eek:
 
I am both a Busse and ESEE owner.

For blades over 6" I am a Busse fanboy and use em exclusively.

For blades under 6" I am an ESEE fanboy and use em exclusively.

My BWM LE is quite possibly the greatest big knife I have ever owned.

My RC3mil is quite possibly the greatest blade under 6" I have ever owned and is my FAVORITE knife to use out of all I own.

They are both fantastic and worth the price.

You need to chop w INFI to really appreciate the edge retention and how the steel rolls and will not chip out.

I don't see how people can make comments or remarks when they have never owned or used a piece of INFI...
 
I think it is a known fact that INFI is a better steel than Rowen's 1095, not better for "you" but better edge holding, lateral strength, chipping resistance, and rust resistance. The question however is whether or not you are willing to buy a knife that costs 4 times as much for the increased performance.

For me ESEE's are a wonderful value for the price. I'm a busse kin guy myself but I really enjoy ESEE and find that Rowen's 1095 is an awesome steel. An Junglas is 160, a BM around 600. Will infi perform 3-4 times as well as 1095 as the cost would indicate? No. But it will perform noticebly better.

Personally Busse Kins are my favorite because I feel that at half the cost, SR 101 will perform do well that INFI would not be worth it for me.

Basically you get what you pay for. 1095 is an awesome steel and will do everything you need and then some. Is INFI better? Yes. Is SR 101 better? I'd say so. Is the small increase in performance worth the high cost? That's up to you.
 
TrailWolf said:
I don't see how people can make comments or remarks when they have never owned or used a piece of INFI...
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Disclaimer: Just to be clear first up (because we all now how things can go wrong on the interwebs) I am not upset by this statement, nor am I trying to start an argument. Just wanted to make it clear that I fully understand it is not directed at me in particular, but a general statement.

I feel that without having ever used (let alone seen) any INFI, I can confidently state that my 1095 Esee knives (and s7 Dogfather) will perform every task I will ever need them to and not fail me. That being said, if I could afford something from Busse right now, I'd buy something and fully expect it to perform great :thumbup:
 
PunisherLcr said:
Disclaimer: Just to be clear first up (because we all now how things can go wrong on the interwebs) I am not upset by this statement, nor am I trying to start an argument. Just wanted to make it clear that I fully understand it is not directed at me in particular, but a general statement.

I feel that without having ever used (let alone seen) any INFI, I can confidently state that my 1095 Esee knives (and s7 Dogfather) will perform every task I will ever need them to and not fail me. That being said, if I could afford something from Busse right now, I'd buy something and fully expect it to perform great :thumbup:
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Sorry if the comment felt like it was directed at you - it was a general one just making the point that one cannot make a comparison when one has not tried both.

But regardless, your point is key and I am in total agreement - what it all really comes down to is what works for YOU because all our needs and experiences are different.


.
 
Horn Dog said:
It's no secret that I am a Busse collector. Yes, the fan boy stuff gets old, but in truth, INFI is an amazing steel. It isn't stainless, but it resists corrosion much better than 1095. It is tougher than 1095. But 1095 with a good heat treat is tough enough for anything most us will ever need a knife for. I have always liked 1095. The ESEE knives I have get more use than my Busses. The best thing about them is the high quality for the price. As I continue my downward recession-driven spiral from Busses to ESSEs, who knows where I'll end up. Maybe I'll turn into a Beckerhead, because I just can't see paying $300 to $500 for the latest release of Busse Custom Shop steak knives. Been looking real hard at those Condor knives. :eek:
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very well said:thumbup:
 
Horn Dog said:
It's no secret that I am a Busse collector. Yes, the fan boy stuff gets old, but in truth, INFI is an amazing steel. It isn't stainless, but it resists corrosion much better than 1095. It is tougher than 1095. But 1095 with a good heat treat is tough enough for anything most us will ever need a knife for. I have always liked 1095. The ESEE knives I have get more use than my Busses. The best thing about them is the high quality for the price. As I continue my downward recession-driven spiral from Busses to ESSEs, who knows where I'll end up. Maybe I'll turn into a Beckerhead, because I just can't see paying $300 to $500 for the latest release of Busse Custom Shop steak knives. Been looking real hard at those Condor knives. :eek:
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Next thing you know you'll be hoping for Mora to come out with a chopper :eek:
 
Ive got one swamprat 4 busse's and one Fehrman and all of them are AMAZING knives. Not to say ESEE knives arent amazing as well. But I think people need to handle a Busse knife befor saying they dont believe that they are worth the money. They are worth their weight in gold IMO as are Fehrman knives. Cold Steel knives also are fantasic I have a couple of their folders which are just indestructable. You dont need to have an INFI blade to have a great knife but once you have tasted INFI you will want more of it, same goes for fehrmans CPM-3V. Just my thoughts on the subject.
 
mistwalker said:
I would put forward the thought that it's best to not go getting all hung up on steel type. The steel type plays a part yes, but not as important of a part as heat treat. I have never owned a Busse, and likely never will unless I just run across a really good deal on one of the few smaller models I've seen that I really do like. I have owned several ESEE/Rowen made knives. I still own and use a few of them regularly. I have given a few as gifts because I trust them to function as advertised, and I plan to buy a few more. I really like the steel used and the heat treat. They are tough, work-horse knives that earn their keep and I have yet to have an ESEE knife fail me. Personally I would be far more likely to buy 4 Junglases than one mistress, and even more likely to buy just one and spend the rest of the money on other things. In all honesty I can see where someone could bring up handle comfort, that is a matter of personal tastes, but I would think that anyone who says ESEE charges too much for their knives has never really put one through it's paces out in the field. I have put them through some pretty rough paces and I am a repeat customer.
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I had Busses, good knives, not worth the money, stick with 1095 and a good warranty, ESEE makes some good stuff, I like my Beckers at half the cost of them which are half the cost of Busses....

Scrapyard probably makes the best of all the Busses, comfy, ugly and warrantied for life...
 
I have 4 Busse and 3 ESEE and didn't brake any of it. So I cannot really compare the two different steels myself. I can get both very sharp very easily. I am sure a Junglas would take anything I can throw at it, yet that spot is filled by my FBM. I just love that blade.

As many have stated, value is a bit relative.. for me the Busses I have are good value and the ESEE (5, 3, Izula) are fantastic value. The knives are great and also the quality of the sheaths is superb! I find the ESEE even almost cheap for what you get.
 
TrailWolf said:
I don't see how people can make comments or remarks when they have never owned or used a piece of INFI...
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No my friend, they can comment and make remarks as long as they are not head to head comparisons of INFI to other steels. THEN it would be commentary from a point of ignorance.

But to simply offer commentary on the price points and other things is perfectly legitimate.

I have read enough stuff from people I trust on here to know that Busse's knives are tough enough to survive just about anything life throws at you. I actually met Jerry back in 1999 or 2000, don't remember which year, nice guy. Friendly guy and not just to people that are buying something from him, says a lot about him as a person.

My ESEE and older RATs, well, they are tough enough to survive just about anything life is going to throw at me as well.

My commentary is simply this, people can think it's from a point of ignorance, I don't really care. When you're talking about these Busse Knives, you're talking about buying a Glock. That's the kind of money we're talking and it's really a cool comparison because neither one of them come with a holster/sheath. :D

I'm sorry, unless you're talking about art knives, I cannot justify the price of a combat handgun for a fixed blade knife, it's just me. I've been flamed before, I'll probably get flamed for that as well.

I know people who just buy all these shitty knives and they look at mine and they can't figure out why I have what I have. They are so stupid and ignorant, it's almost impossible to believe.

That's because there is a Grand Canyon sized gulf between a gas station pocketknife that is made in China and is a ripoff of a Spyderco and a real Spyderco.

The gulf that separates ESEE and Busse is not nearly so wide.


messer454 said:
So if you want the absolute toughest because someday you MIGHT have to make a shelter or split a large log with just your knife AND you are by yourself you know your there is a really good chance it will not fail if it is INFI.
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"Might?" I have already made shelters with a hell of a lot less than ESEE knives! I have never broken a knife making a shelter and I have never had to split a large log in order to survive...nor do I expect to. When I see people splitting logs in "survival knife tests," I'm like, "So, you're stranded in the wilderness, how convenient that they find some cord wood." :rolleyes:

They TOTALLY blow any credibility that they might have enjoyed with me.

If people want to own Busse Knives, I think that's great. I think it's great that Jerry has had such success with his company. His company is strong and it's not going anywhere and that's great.

All of the rest of the stuff, I take it with a salt-shaker because I have also read enough of the rabid folks to know that a simple grain or two won't suffice. :D
 
rookie4real said:
It’s like Rolex watches that even non-watch people are raving about where there are many watch companies such as Omega or Breitling that give you more bang for your buck.
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if you want a watch that looks cool and has a lot of name recognition, Rolex is a fine choice.

however, mechanical watches have a HORRIBLE reputation for actually keeping accurate time. a $20 Timex will do a better job at that than any Rolex.

and AFAIK, Rolex doesn't offer any watches with a titanium case and bracelet, or a saphire crystal, and those are two things i've found i really like on a watch for the lighter weight and scratch resistance.


on the steels, AFAIK, "Infi" is proprietary to Busse and nobody else can use it. sure, you could figure out the exact makeup of Infi and make something similar, if not identical, you just couldn't call it Infi. same as only Hitachi can make ATS-34 and call it that. another company could make an identical steel, but they'd have to call it something else.

there's a huge number of makers building knives from 1095.. seems to be a good, "all around" carbon steel. does the job, sharpens well in the field, and is reasonably priced.

Busse makes some nice stuff, but it seems difficult to "just buy one" i've looked on the site and i must not have my decoder ring set properly or something, because i rarely see anything listed as being available. i can't remember what steels Scrapyard and Swamp Rat use, but IIRC, it's not Infi. i'm not a big fan of the molded rubber handles like the "respirene" or whatever it is on the Scrapyards.
 
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