10Cr17 Steel

jaislandboy said:
just a guess based on CRKT's website:
http://www.crkt.com/steelfct.html

the 10 might mean 1.0% Carbon and 17 for 17% Chromium :confused:
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Exactly true. Whatever any specific chart says this is a 1% Carbon and 17% Chromium steel. All the other elements listed are contaminations that are to expensive to remove for a domestic Chinese steel supplier.

Chinese 440C, thats what it is. And the Chinese knows 440C just as much as any other.

Too bad they dont list lead, mercury and cadmium, thats where the real difference is for chinese vs US/European/JaPANESE 440C. Thats why chinese steel is not allowed in food industry. At least not yet.
 
The steels you get from China or India these days may not be what you ordered.This is well known in the steel industry. The only way to buy steel is from reliable sources and request certifications !!!....The question about 10Cr17 should be solved by someone buying a knife and having it analyzed !!
 
mete said:
The steels you get from China or India these days may not be what you ordered.This is well known in the steel industry. The only way to buy steel is from reliable sources and request certifications !!!....The question about 10Cr17 should be solved by someone buying a knife and having it analyzed !!
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True, and also it does not spec composition tolerances. Thoose are still very wide from chinese manufacturers. Making steel with Carbon 1% +- 0.05% is very different from 1%+-0.15%. Also with Chromium it's probably in the range of 17%+-2%. This means that...

0.85% C and 19% Cr and
1.15% C and 15% Cr

...is still the same grade, 440C. But the steel will behave very different. Composition tolerances are extremely important for consistent quality. And that is exactly what chinese steel mills are bad at today.
 
Razorsharp244 said:
Exactly true. Whatever any specific chart says this is a 1% Carbon and 17% Chromium steel. All the other elements listed are contaminations that are to expensive to remove for a domestic Chinese steel supplier.

Chinese 440C, thats what it is. And the Chinese knows 440C just as much as any other.

Too bad they dont list lead, mercury and cadmium, thats where the real difference is for chinese vs US/European/JaPANESE 440C. Thats why chinese steel is not allowed in food industry. At least not yet.
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One chart being wrong I understand. Mistakes happen.
All of them being wrong? We have found at least 3 and all of them say that this is not 1% C.

What is your source that tells you 10Cr17 steel has 1% C and equivalent to 440C?

add: I still think Blackhawk listed the wrong steel name.
 
Well the knife is on it's way, won't be long until we all find out if it will past the test...:)
 
knarfeng said:
One chart being wrong I understand. Mistakes happen.
All of them being wrong? We have found at least 3 and all of them say that this is not 1% C.

What is your source that tells you 10Cr17 steel has 1% C and equivalent to 440C?

add: I still think Blackhawk listed the wrong steel name.
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My source is the chinese composition name series. These are all readily available in YangJiang city (the chinese knife capitol). And these are not all.

  • 3Cr13 (0.3%C and 13% Cr) (~420)
  • 4Cr13MoV (0.4%C and 13% Cr) (~420HC)
  • 5Cr15MoV (0.5%C and 15% Cr)
  • 7Cr17Mo (0.7%C and 17% Cr)
  • 8Cr13MoV (0.8%C and 13% Cr)
  • 9Cr18Mo (0.9%C and 18% Cr) (~440C)

Against this I would safely assume that 10r17 is 1%Cr and 17% Cr. Unless there is a typo like 1Cr17 or something like that.
 
Razorsharp244 said:
My source is the chinese composition name series. These are all readily available in YangJiang city (the chinese knife capitol). And these are not all.
  • 3Cr13 (0.3%C and 13% Cr) (~420)
  • 4Cr13MoV (0.4%C and 13% Cr) (~420HC)
  • 5Cr15MoV (0.5%C and 15% Cr)
  • 7Cr17Mo (0.7%C and 17% Cr)
  • 8Cr13MoV (0.8%C and 13% Cr)
  • 9Cr18Mo (0.9%C and 18% Cr) (~440C)
Against this I would safely assume that 10r17 is 1%Cr and 17% Cr. Unless there is a typo like 1Cr17 or something like that.
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You could assume. But it would not be safely.

The three professional sites below all identify 10Cr17 alloy as having less than 0.2% carbon. Against this evidence you place your assumption that you know that the alloy is actually 1% carbon based on your limited of a foreign naming system for alloys.

http://www.bxgb2b.com.cn/info/204.htm

http://tech.custeel.com/gb2312/english/content.jsp?group=1004002&articleID=1301972

http://www.dynamicmet.com/sp3.htm

I honestly believe that when Treg gets his knife the steel will be acceptable, but it will be acceptable because it is not 10Cr17 alloy.
 
knarfeng said:
You could assume. But it would not be safely.

The three professional sites below all identify 10Cr17 alloy as having less than 0.2% carbon. Against this evidence you place your assumption that you know that the alloy is actually 1% carbon based on your limited of a foreign naming system for alloys.

http://www.bxgb2b.com.cn/info/204.htm

http://tech.custeel.com/gb2312/english/content.jsp?group=1004002&articleID=1301972

http://www.dynamicmet.com/sp3.htm

I honestly believe that when Treg gets his knife the steel will be acceptable, but it will be acceptable because it is not 10Cr17 alloy.
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And 2 of these sites lists 10Cr17 as the same as 1Cr17. I touched upon this in my post. A good answer requires an informed question, so that small piece of info could maybe have been added earlier.

The last link does not at all mention the grade. Only some 200 and 300 grades where 10C17 also contains significant amounts of Nickel. These are not even used for knives (more like kitchen sinks).

In knife maker circles however the grade designations I used are the ones used. Not grade designations for 200 and 300 steels. And since we are in a knife forum and not a spring steel forum I answer accordingly. If someone uses this in a knife. And cant tell the difference between a 300 class austenitic grade, a soft 410 grade and a proper knife steel I would stay away from that supplier.
 
Funny you should mention 300 series . There has been a big problem in recent years when you order 300 from China/India . You may get 200 and not even a standard 200 alloy but something strange !!! If it comes frome China/India you never know !
 
Those grades would make really crappy knives. HRC in the 30:s. And H/T would be no benefit at all.

Corrosion resistance though would probably be good.

Personally I beleive there are better ways to cut costs than using suspicious steels. People recognize a bad product and it will eventually hurt the company using it.
 
Ok the knife is in and I already test it a bit. One thing for sure it's not comparable to 420J2 at all. I did a chopping test with a dried 2X4 wich is pretty hard and the blade hold up really good, I also split a couple of old logs using the batonning technique and again the edge hold up really good. No chipping, no dent, nothing...afterwards I stroped the edge a bit since it's convexe and I cut paper pretty easily. Overall it performe's well and it's comparable to 440C much more than 420J2. I don't think that 420J2 would of stand the chopping test anyway. I going to my cabin next week and I'm gonna test it in real conditions, maybe I'll make another review on it. Hope's this clear things a bit for some of you guys...thank's Treg!!!!
 
I've mentioned this before. The knife factories in Yangjiang (China's cutlery center) only have two stainless steels available to them in large quantities. Unless you want an expensive Chinese knife you need to use one of these two. The one they call 420 usually hardens to around RC55-56. The one they call 440 usually hardens to RC 57-58. The 440 is actually a perfectly decent cutlery stainless. I don't know the composition of the alloy but I have tested the blades.

The manufacturers are constantly wanting to show more exotic steels in their products for marketing purposes but, truthfully, the Yangjiang made knives that are sold at low prices are made from one of these two steels. You can put any kind of numeric designation you want on the steels but they are what they are.

A few manufacturers actually have steel shipped to Yangjiang from Japan. That's how you get AUS-8 in a Chinese knife. Some even ship steel from the U.S. That's how you get D2 in a Chinese made knife. This is fairly expensive to do and increases the price of the knife considerably.

These things are pretty important, actually. In the U.S. the price of the steel in the cost of manufacture is almost trivial compared to the labor cost. The reverse is true in China.
 
Lot of knifemaker are going to China for their's cheaper lines (ie Spydie Byrds and Bench red line), but surprisingly, when customers test the products they shown to be better than what expected. I have a Byrd Robyn and gave my girlfriend a Meadowlark, and both are good, sturdi knifes, steels as good or better than Aus8. assuming the first number in steel chinese refers to the content of carbon (8cr13Mev) is the equivalente of Aus8 (07-08 carbon) Your's should have more in it.
 
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