10v bushcraft knife

C

Chad Michael

Joined
Oct 2, 2016
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I've heard that 10v has similar toughness as d2. Why don't you see it more in outdoor type knives? At 62hrc it seems like it would destroy d2 at the same hrc in almost every category but stain resistance. I know they're aren't a ton of D2 knives out there like this. but there's a lot more than 10v. Is this just my lack of experience talking?is this a no-no? I mean it is steel after all.
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1/8" cpm10v curtesy of alpha knife supply
 
I don't know about being just as tough as D2. I have a 10v blade and it's tricky. The edge will chip out with any side load. I treat it more like a ceramic knife when I use it. It's not that fragile but I treat it good. As a knife for holding an edge it's amazing but I would not want to be hacking at trees or cutting wood with it or doing any other bushcraft type things with that blade. D2 on the other hand can be tough or chippy depending on how it's heat treated. But me personally would take that over a 10V for woods use any day. But there are other steels better for that then even D2 so you have to pick your battles and troops according to the task at hand.
 
have you tried it(10v) at a hardness,edge angle and thickness suitable for a harder use knife? Has anyone else? I wouldn't imagine that it would be suitable at all for batoning or prying but how about normal field use meant for a knife. I can see more than a few end of days type scenarios were the time and noise of field sharpening wouldn't be ideal. Are there other steels that I should look at for this? I was thinking of testing M4 in this exact design to compare the two
I know there are much better steels than D2 I just mentioned it because a lot of graphs have the 2 at comparable toughness and a good bit of makers use it. Also my trail knife is a D2 BM Adamas.
 
I use 10V & K390 steels for thin hunter/parer/slicer knives because of their high wear resistant property. I only done about 30 knives in these steels, limited experiences...

Bending range of 10V is very narrow compare to lower alloy steels (given same dimension, etc...). Annealed 10V (highest carbide volume state and most ductile) won't bend far before fracture, so it can't be any more ductile than this. In light of this exact limitation, can that knife you picture be ht and able to support stated intended uses? Yes but highly depend on reasonable edge geometry.

I've a couple stout 10V hunter blades which can do that plus
10V 0.105" thick, 4.125" edge, 8.5" OAL, 1.125" wide, hrc over 64, 4.8dps primary bevel, 18 dps edge bevel, 0.019" behind edge thickness

'plus': edge supports light chopping seasoned: 2x4, oak, African Blackwood, Lignum Vitae Argentine. No problem whittle raw bones.
 
Thanks bluntcut. That's exactly what I needed till know. Still going to experiment with different ht and geometry but at least now I have a good place to start. I know it won't take the abuse of 3v but the knife is for me and I know how to use and not abuse.
 
Chad Michael said:
Thanks bluntcut. That's exactly what I needed till know. Still going to experiment with different ht and geometry but at least now I have a good place to start. I know it won't take the abuse of 3v but the knife is for me and I know how to use and not abuse.
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I'm going to be doing several tests on 10v, m4, 20cv and s110v in the near future. I'll post my results as I go.

Where can I find k390? Is it any tougher?
 
If you are looking for a "tougher" high alloy PM stainless steel, you might want to look at Elmax as 61Rc or so.
 
K390 is now more/less avail via BU.usa, unless AKS somehow carries it again. At this point in my ht time, 10V is slightly tougher than K390 based on total % of free alloy elements%(lower is tougher). So, beside 1 last K390 blank, I have no plan in buying more k390.

To be clear on edge geometry. My std hunter 10V is 15dps and 0.012" BET will supports shallow chops(less than 0.25" deep). There isn't not enough steel to prevent excess steering/side-way-bend for chop with penetration more than 0.25". My extra thin slicer is 15dps and 0.004-0.005" BET (behind edge thick) - it will press_whittle any uber hardwoods, just don't side load the edge. For a high skills sharpener, edge angle can reduce to about 12dps, any lower dps edge would lose its keenness very fast.

M4, 4V, Zwear, etc are fun to play with. 4V carbide seem quite coarse among them, so it favors coarse sharpened edge. Beside 20cv/m390, s110v you should try cts-xhp, which support higher hardness and keener edge.

Chad Michael said:
I'm going to be doing several tests on 10v, m4, 20cv and s110v in the near future. I'll post my results as I go.

Where can I find k390? Is it any tougher?
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K390 was developed as an alternative to A11 with a little less abrasion resistance and better toughness. It is an excellent steel. However, Bohler is no longer "supporting it". I don't know what "supporting it" means, but I can't get any.

However, I've been told about an alternative and I'm trying to buy some for testing.

I think the reason not very many people make knives from A11 is because it is so hard to grind after heat treating.

Chuck
 
After checking out the composition of k390. Wow seems like an excellent steel. 3rd gen pm at that. I will definitely be on the lookout for that or an alternative
 
Nah, play with that 10v blank you've. Get more k390 or other high alloy steels after you have a 2x72 with plenty of horse power. Grind hardened 10v/k390 is painful with a powerful grinder with vfd.
Chad Michael said:
After checking out the composition of k390. Wow seems like an excellent steel. 3rd gen pm at that. I will definitely be on the lookout for that or an alternative
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bluntcut said:
Nah, play with that 10v blank you've. Get more k390 or other high alloy steels after you have a 2x72 with plenty of horse power. Grind hardened 10v/k390 is painful with a powerful grinder with vfd.
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Gotcha. Yea I have a 2x72 on my Christmas list. We will see.
Can you not grind it as thin preht because of the high temper?
I had planned to get it pretty close to final bet-.04 or so.
 
I pre-ht to about 0.010-0.03", sometime greedy to thickness less than 0.005" (for small knives...straighten edge with hand & fingernails :D). When in a hurry or impatience, pre-ht bevel isn't symmetrical, I leave thickness ~0.03" thick.

Cutting edge for a knife like your, I would keep BET ~0.02" or 0.015" if usage w/o chops. 0.03+" BET is approaching an ax edge geometry. Peters or Bos ht?

Chad Michael said:
Gotcha. Yea I have a 2x72 on my Christmas list. We will see.
Can you not grind it as thin preht because of the high temper?
I had planned to get it pretty close to final bet-.04 or so.
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Alpha Knife Supply said:
K390 was developed as an alternative to A11 with a little less abrasion resistance and better toughness. It is an excellent steel. However, Bohler is no longer "supporting it". I don't know what "supporting it" means, but I can't get any.

However, I've been told about an alternative and I'm trying to buy some for testing.

I think the reason not very many people make knives from A11 is because it is so hard to grind after heat treating.

Chuck
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I think Chuck hit the nail on the head on the reasoning why more of this great material isn't used. Its a lot easier to say it isn't tough than it is to make a knife out of it. LOL

If you've never ground 10V/A11 hardened to HRC 63-64 you should give it a try. Be sure to use ceramic belts because it LAUGHS at anything else.


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ghter-CPM-10V-Part-1?highlight=darrin+sanders
Here is a link to a knife I made for hard use. Now, I say "hard use" but not chopping cinder blocks or cutting bolts.

My first test blades had the same H/T as this knife and were about .015"-.018" behind the edge and I personally drove one through cross grain, seasoned, hard Maple with no damage. I moved on to cross grain, seasoned Osage Orange with no damage. From there I drove it through a 3/4" piece of Axis antler tip with no pith and there was only a small shiny spot on the edge.

Personally, I would choose 10V over D2 ANY day but to each his own.
 
Darrin Sanders said:
I think Chuck hit the nail on the head on the reasoning why more of this great material isn't used. Its a lot easier to say it isn't tough than it is to make a knife out of it. LOL

If you've never ground 10V/A11 hardened to HRC 63-64 you should give it a try. Be sure to use ceramic belts because it LAUGHS at anything else.
That's impressive. After doing a lot of research on 10v I thought that it would be really cool to use it non


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ghter-CPM-10V-Part-1?highlight=darrin+sanders
Here is a link to a knife I made for hard use. Now, I say "hard use" but not chopping cinder blocks or cutting bolts.

My first test blades had the same H/T as this knife and were about .015"-.018" behind the edge and I personally drove one through cross grain, seasoned, hard Maple with no damage. I moved on to cross grain, seasoned Osage Orange with no damage. From there I drove it through a 3/4" piece of Axis antler tip with no pith and there was only a small shiny spot on the edge.

Personally, I would choose 10V over D2 ANY day but to each his own.
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Thats impressive. After doing a ton of research on 10v I thought that it would be really cool if it could be used
Nontraditionally. It makes me feel better about this whole project that a few guys that really know they're stuff have already done it. Getting the heat treat done at peters until I finish my home made oven later this month.
 
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