-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/
12c27
- Thread starter mete
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2010
- Messages
- 1,077
Does it matter really? You've got 14c28n which is undoubtedly an upgrade and still just as affordable.
14C28N (used mainly by Kershaw,) was an upgrade to 13C26. I've never seen it compared to 12C27 (the steel used in stainless Opinels, Moras, and many, many other knives.)
Last edited:
Can you post a link? I just googled it, and wasn't able to find anything beyond this thread.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2010
- Messages
- 1,077
I know I know but who can even tell? Do you think I can hand you a knife and tell you its 12c27, then after using it for an hour have you turn around and say hey this is 14c28n. We all focus on minute chemical properties of steels but in real world applications the differences are hardly perceivable. I'm not saying there is no difference because we all know there is but I believe there greatly over exaggerated by steel snobs.
Bark River has pretty much phased out 12C27 and now uses CPM S35VN as it's main stainless steel.
CPM 154 and 154 CM have also been used on a few models.
Big Mike
I'm not sure what the difference is; I've never seen a comparison between the two, and I don't have the metallurgical knowledge to tell just by looking at the specs.
Mora and Opinel, two of the largest knife manufacturers in the world, use 12C27. Along with many, many others. If 12C27 really is getting discontinued, (and we don't have any proof that it is, yet,) then all of those manufacturers will have to adjust to using a different steel. I'm not sure how big those adjustments will have to be, but I think it's a safe bet that prices will be raised because of it.
I stand corrected, then.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2000
- Messages
- 279
Both numbers are higher and there's a "N" at the end, so it's obviously better.
Dan, I like Bark River's 12c27 for it's toughness and ease of sharpening, but CPM S35VN seems to offer many of the same virtues but with better edge retention.
Many buyers are looking for a "newer" steel and see 12C27 as old-school, Bark River has responded by making the change.
The fact that it's American made also fits into Bark River's desire to use homegrown products when possible.
Before going with S35VN Bark River tested some of Carpenter's new stainless steels (with good results), but availability seemed to be a problem.
Particle metallurgy has given us a new breed of Stainless steels that blur the lines between the perceived advantages of low Chromium steel alloys.
It's a good time to be a knife enthusiast.
Big Mike
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2009
- Messages
- 3,198
It is indeed. For those a bit longer in the tooth, 30 years ago these discussions would never have happened. We didn't worry about giving up 1% of a certain element in a steel, or how this maker heat treats one specialty steel compared to another.
We went down and bought knives based on reputation (CASE, Buck, Schrade) and enjoyed the knife. We didn't know better. Now we fuss over who heat treats certain specialty steels the best and have found out own "favorite steels" to follow.
It was easier without the internet as we didn't know that we had to take so many things into consideration when buying. We liked a knife, we bought it. Unless it is a huge difference, usually due to different heat treating rather than the actual steel, I haven't found anyone that could tell the difference in steels when using a knife. No one I have ever met has said, "wow, when I was using that knife it felt more like D2 instead of ATS 34." Sorry buddy, the knife was actually made from 1534C! Gotcha!
That being said, I am sure that the old reliable 12c27 will be replaced with something nice, and in practice none of us will even know the difference. Although... I have no doubt countless tests will appear here on the forum from those that will be able to tell a huge difference between the old 12c and it successor. Old school traditionalists will proclaim their love for the "old steel" and maybe some renegade knife maker will make a limited run of knives from 12c and charge a huge amount for their knives.
Then the old knives will be sought after and coveted, and the circle of the knife world will begin again.
Robert
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2007
- Messages
- 987
12C27 was supposedly the "straight razor" steel. I was always skeptical of the idea that the straight razor steel market was big enough to spur the creation of it's own specialty steel. I just assumed that the steel was well suited to the purpose, cheap & available. That said, I like it.
"Old school traditionalists will proclaim their love for the "old steel" and maybe some renegade knife maker will make a limited run of knives from 12c and charge a huge amount for their knives. Then the old knives will be sought after and coveted, and the circle of the knife world will begin again."
Yes indeed. With me it's mentally filed under "takes fine edge easily" & has a sort of old-world classiness to me because of the knives it shows up in. It definitely has an aura about it that a newer near-clone wouldn't have.
"Old school traditionalists will proclaim their love for the "old steel" and maybe some renegade knife maker will make a limited run of knives from 12c and charge a huge amount for their knives. Then the old knives will be sought after and coveted, and the circle of the knife world will begin again."
Yes indeed. With me it's mentally filed under "takes fine edge easily" & has a sort of old-world classiness to me because of the knives it shows up in. It definitely has an aura about it that a newer near-clone wouldn't have.
Last edited:
It was actually conceived as a razor Blade steel, think disposable razor and scalpel blades.
Big Mike