13C26 Razor Blade Steel -- a Kershaw Junkyard Dog II Review

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Quick background stuff ... the Kershaw Junkyard Dog II (JYD2) is a medium-large liner lock folder designed by Tim Galyean, featuring a novel "flipper" opening system, grey G-10 scales, with a full flat ground 3.75" Sandvik 13C26 steel blade.

Since the JYD2 has been discussed quite a bit already in other threads on BFC, I thought I'd mostly look at edge retention of 13C26, a steel designed for use in razor blades, comparing it to a couple of more familiar blade steels at high levels of push cutting sharpness.

My test was to measure loss of push cutting sharpness, with sharpness being the distance in inches from point-of-hold on newsprint where the blade will push cut. Sisal rope was chosen as the test material, with the 13C26 JYD2 being compared to O-1 tool steel at about 61HRC (Frosts laminated blade Mora) and VG-10 at around 58-60HRC (Spyderco.)

Although the JYD2's factory edge was quite good, the blade was first reprofiled to 12 degrees/side, with a 17 deg/side microbevel added. This is the same geometry as the VG-10 blade, and close to the Mora's ~10 deg./side primary edge with 15 degree microbevel. Using only fine Crock Sticks for finishing, the 13C26 JYD2 easily takes an almost freakishly sharp edge, push cutting newsprint at 4.5"-4.6".

Below are pictures of the reprofiled blade. FYI the edge bevels are .050"-.055" wide, with a blade thickness of .020" behind the edge, measured 3/4 of an inch back from the tip:

jyd2-3.jpg



jyd2-1.jpg


On to the testing ... shortly into it, I found that significant differences in edge retention could be determined with only 30 cuts of the rope. The first round of testing found the O-1 blade retaining about 93% of its push cutting sharpness, the VG-10 about 88%. The 13C26 however would still push cut the newsprint at the same distance from point-of-hold as when freshly sharpened, 4.6"!

These tests were repeated several times, with the 13C26 blade averaging better than 98% edge retention (which I'm sure is beyond the level of accuracy of my method.) The O-1 and VG-10 blades showed average retention of about 94% and 86% respectively, over 30 cuts.

Looking at the edges under magnification, it seems clear what's going on. The 13C26 alloy, designed to have very high edge stability, looked perfect. Not even the faintest hint of microchipping, no impaction, no rolling; flawless. The O-1 blade showed just the slightest bit of microchipping, the VG-10 more still and the chips larger and deeper. So for retaining a very fine edge when working with materials that aren't terribly abrasive, 13C26 seems an outstanding choice, doing exactly what it's designed to do.

Informally ... carrying and using the JYD2 for a while now, the terrific edge holding found when testing on rope is no fluke. If you prefer a polished edge and very high level of sharpness like this, this steel won't disappoint. It's also worth mentioning that it's a delight to sharpen, it's still a bit hard to believe that the edge retention is so high, as it wasn't at all difficult to reprofile on an AO stone. The burr formed during reprofiling was miniscule, and there were no problems related to a wire edge at all ... it just takes a wicked-sharp edge, quick and easy.

Like everyone else it seems, I'm very impressed with this knife overall. Ergonomics are outstanding, and obviously a lot of thought went into the design. Even the clip plays a role in making the knife feel very good and very secure in hand. The action is smooth, and when I had it disassembled I was very impressed with the fit and finish both inside and out.

And with Sandvik 13C26 performing like this, IMO this is a great knife.
 
the storm 2 is a flat ground frame locking flipper of 13c26, i love it. nearly the same, just recurved. now i want the jyd but i don't like the decals so i'd have to go jyd2.
 
Thanks for a well thought out testing procedure and a well done review.
 
This sounds really good! Do you know the hardness of the Kershaw? Thanks for the great review, another knife gets put on the list...
 
Kershaw uses 13C26 in the 59-61 range of the RC scale and I wish every production knife company using S30V at similar levels of hardness would follow Kershaw's lead and do the same*. Kershaw's linerlocks and framelocks are no joke, either**.


*Or harder if they want - some folks in Germany and Nevada run it at RC63, but who knows if their heat treatments can be used for mass production?

**Meaning in terms of reliability through construction and quality control. I've twisted most of mine in a vise to get them to fail and it didn't happen. They also passed spinewhack tests, but the first test seems more meaningful to me for some reason. I'm not saying you can't literally tell jokes about 'em. "Two Kershaw Junkyard Dog IIs are drinking at a bar. The first one pats the second on its flipper and is amazed to see the second's blade shoot straight upward and expose a wickedly gleaming edge. The first JYD II asks the second 'Hey, want to fool around?,' but the second JYD II replies 'No thanks. I'm engaged.'" :p
 
Thanks for the feedback, guys! It's a whole lotta fun testing and reviewing a knife that not only meets but actually exceeds your expectations. Not to mention owning and carrying one. :)

I don't know what the benefits and drawbacks might be of running this steel harder than the stated 59-61HRC, but I sure like the performance I'm seeing like this. If you're like I am and like knowing you have a freshly-sharpened knife in your pocket with a very fine, ultra-sharp edge ... well 13C26 not only takes an amazing edge but holds that kind of hair-splitting sharpness better than any other stainless I've ever used.

I also did some testing of the liner lock just like Thom describes, clamping the blade in a vise and twisting the handle. You can get the frame to flex some and I could feel a tiny bit of play around the pivot, but the lock remained secure and showed no detectable disengagement. With a .073" thick lock bar, this is nearly a frame lock, and I trust it as much as I think you reasonably can any folding knife.

At a street price of $45-$50 I consider the JYD2 an exceptional value.
 
I don't know what the benefits and drawbacks might be of running this steel harder than the stated 59-61HRC....

The drawbacks is that it is more difficult for the heat treater, the benefits are an enhancement of the performance you see. As a general note, I would question the significance of such a small difference measurement wise, but the visuals will tell the tale. I would suggest a slightly longer run, double at least.

-Cliff
 
Hi Dog, Nice test and review.

Kershaw does good work.

Is the "novel flipper" a Carson Flipper, or is there something else novel about it?

Hey Cliff, assuming a good heat treater, how hard would you recommend?

sal
 
I would question the significance of such a small difference measurement wise, but the visuals will tell the tale. I would suggest a slightly longer run, double at least.-Cliff

I agree, Cliff, more extensive runs would be informative. Might be just be able to squeeze that in in the next day or two, and will post here.

Sal, thanks for the kind remarks. It's been quite a learning curve for me, but thanks to knowledgeable folks like yourself contributing to these forums, I hope I've picked up a few things and can give a little something back.

I neglected to mention in describing my test method that I'm essentially push cutting the rope, which is 1/4" sisal, allowing no more than about 1/8"-3/16" of draw (forward push actually) on a cut. As a result wear was confined to a very limited area of the edge. I was surprised how sharp all the blades were following the test cutting, considering Phil Wilson's results using a 7" draw:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=421773

None of the knives required anything close to 20 lbs. downward force at the end, instead only about 5-7 lbs. for a true push cut and less if allowing a bit of draw. I was only cutting about 16% as much material per cut (1/4" vs. 5/8" rope) but considering that I was using only 5.5%-6.25% as much edge as Phil did in his tests ... well I can't say why my blades weren't requiring a lot more force at the end.

BTW Phil Wilson's test of AEB-L, essentially the same steel as as 13C26 as I understand it, contains some interesting comments worth reference here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=424485
 
Kai USA has worked extremely hard assuring that we get the most out of this particular piece of steel. Being 13C26 was being turned to as the steel of choice with our core products and customers, we needed to ensure that it could perform up to everyone’s satisfaction.

We have put 13C26 through a full series of HT recipes, processed it from 55 Rc all the way to 64.5 Rc, and everywhere in between. I think as far as cutlery steel goes, I would say we have pushed it pretty far. We have learned a great deal with all these experiences, and the knowledge we have found, proved out that 13C26 performs really well at 59-60 Rc.
You can hear first hand from the likes of respected "darksiders" like STR, Thom, DOW, and others, that 13C26 does not have to Rc at 65 (63 Rc in Cliff's eyes now, I guess he backed off a few points) to be effective. Now there is some understanding yet to be comprehended with 13C26, but we have done our homework.
We do use and will continue to use qualified outsiders, to get perspectives that may be overlooked from the inside. We take their insight very seriously, and many a positive change has been made due to their input. :thumbup:

We also are focusing on our geometry as well, and that combination really makes for a very fine performing knife.
The bottom line is that 13C26 is rewarding, and even the steel tweakers (have to love you guys) are acknowledging the same.

I am proud to say that we utilize 13C26 in only products that are made here in the USA, and know first hand and from the real world experiences of many others that 13C26 will not disappoint.
 
None of the knives required anything close to 20 lbs. downward force at the end, instead only about 5-7 lbs. for a true push cut and less if allowing a bit of draw. I was only cutting about 16% as much material per cut (1/4" vs. 5/8" rope) but considering that I was using only 5.5%-6.25% as much edge as Phil did in his tests ... well I can't say why my blades weren't requiring a lot more force at the end.

As a rough estimate, you would expect the force to scale as the diameter squared (contact length as well as depth of cut increase). So Phil would expect to see :

[(5/8)/(1/4)]^2*(5->7)

For a similar geometry/sharpness, so roughly 35 lbs or so, scale that down by about half for a long slice, so 20 is reasonable after blunting.

-Cliff
 
Hi Dog, Nice test and review.
Is the "novel flipper" a Carson Flipper, or is there something else novel about it?

I agree this is good stuff, and really nice to hear a not so exotic/premium steel performing so well.

The new Kershaw flipper utilizes a lot of mechanical advantage and uses pre-loaded tension of the finger to flip open the blades -
when done properly it's almost like an "unassisted assist" - ie: behaves like a spring loaded assisted opener.

The larger blades show this much better as there is enough intertia/momentum for the blades to open with "authority" -
whereas the smaller bladed JunkYard Dog takes some practice. I can now open it comfortably - but it still requires that I pay some attention to make sure I pre-load finger tension - it may seem pedantic and a minor thing - but it isn't to me, as the JunkYard Dog II (reviewed here) and the Groove both open almost effortlessly and I don't even have to think about it - I do have to think about the smaller JYD, or it may fail to open fully for me -
(perhaps I'm a klutz - but this is now 14 days' worth of practice - and I am EDC'ing the smaller JYD at home).

The new Kershaw flippers really have to be experienced first hand to appreciate them.

For more details please click on the following reference threads -

New Kershaw Flippers

Kershaw JunkYard Dog II

Kershaw JunkYard Dog Review

Kershaw RJ Martin Groove

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Vincent
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Thanks for the review Dog (I like being able to say that :D). Based on what I've read in this thread, I put an order in with my favorite Internet supplier. Can't wait to start cutting with it. If this is "razor blade steel" don't be surprised if I thin one of them out and try just that. My DOVO's need a rest anyway...
 
Thanks for the review Dog (I like being able to say that :D). Based on what I've read in this thread, I put an order in with my favorite Internet supplier. Can't wait to start cutting with it. If this is "razor blade steel" don't be surprised if I thin one of them out and try just that. My DOVO's need a rest anyway...
Yo, dawg! We be down wid dat! (insert gang sign emoticon here)

Let us know when you post the video on YouTube. :)
 
The JYDII is one of my all time favorite liner locking knives. I do carry it but not as much as my all time favorite EDC and most frequently used and abused folder which ironically is even less money to get into if you want one and thats the Storm II.

I love this S II of mine given to me by Thomas to test for Kai. Its at 64.5Rc but thats not really why I love it so much. Thom Brogan wanted to see it and reprofiled the entire primary and secondary edge for me but I loved it before he did this for the long term edge it keeps. I also love it of course because it was the start of a new relationship with Thomas Welk that I have grown to respect greatly and the knife is basically a rare one not seen in mass production too of course.

Now, after Thom's reprofile this S II still keeps that edge like the energize bunny keeps on beating that drum even though its thinner. Its just the best beater upper I've had in years plain and simple and it always cuts. To be honest I didn't much care for the thumb stud so I flat ground the old one down and installed one I like after drilling a hole right through the original.

Later I modified the finish and polished it out for a while to a near mirror hand rubbed finish and then re bead blasted the whole thing. You know this knife is one of very few I've bead blasted that would still slice paper well after bead blasting too which I found pretty cool as well as impressive. Generally when you bead blast a blade it won't slice paper or news print that well at all, especially when you blast at or near the edge which I had to do that day to clean it all up evenly. I've literally cut cardboard all day long with this knife though so it should not have surprised me I guess.

Anyway, I've already detailed why I love 13C26 on so many other threads that if I do it again here I'll feel like a broken record but I will say in conclusion that the edge of this 13C26 steel with the average carbide size of like 6/10ths of a micron as I recall will just flat out stay true to a good apex for good effective cutting for a very long time even at 58 Rc. The hardness in my experience really didn't change that. I'd actually think based on my using various hardness knives from Thomas in this steel that it would be very easy to fake out a tester if he so desired.

What I'm saying is that it seems to me even the best tester would be hard pressed to know if the blade he was cutting with in a folder with this steel was 58 Rockwell or 60 Rc or 64.5Rc I say this because they all perform on par with each other if you ask me and close enough that its near impossible to know without a Rockwell tester if one is actually different from another even when you know they are by trustworthy testing from reliable people.


STR
 
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