15 inch AK a little too much...

Kismet

Kismet

Joined
Jan 30, 2002
Messages
7,269
blade for boning out deer.

I got two deer during the early season in Wisconsin. I hung them in the shed, and looked forward to using the AK for the meat work. But Wisconsin DNR has an advisory out about Chronic Wasting Disease and recommends boning the meat, instead of cutting chops, roasts, etc.
So for the past week, I tried to use the AK as much as possible...it literally "slid" through the muscle with a forward push, slowly only a bit through tendon and muscle sheathing...but was just too big for the working out of the meat from the spine, pelvis, shoulders, and ribs.

When I did chop forelegs off, I bent the edge in several spots...which easily tapped back, and were honed smooth. I wanted to, but did not try the sacrificial beheading. I think there's some serious charda work after that ceremony. Also they HAVE to aim for a spot between vertebrae, I ended up hitting bone several times.

So, without regret, I took out a 60 year old Marbles Woodcrafter, and happily removed the meat in close quarters. I think maybe the Pen knife, or a narrow-bladed khuk of small dimensions might have been useable...but frankly, it gives me joy to use the Marbles. I make connections with hunts of years ago, and hunters long gone. And skinning out a deer with a Marbles is good for the soul. A fact.

Could I have done a less thorough job if I stuck with the AK? Sure. But deer hunting is venison shopping for me, so each slice counts.


Kis


:rolleyes:
 
Good writing.

I don't like the fact the AK bent removing the forelegs. I'll have to try that.




munk
 
But Wisconsin DNR has an advisory out about
Chronic Wasting Disease and recommends boning the meat, instead of cutting chops, roasts,etc.
Click to expand...

No stock from roasted bones, or stews where the meat is slowly simmered with the bones?:( :(

So very sad, but I guess it's wisest not to take any chances with potentially incurable stuff that's so poorly understood.

Congrats on filling the freezer!
 
Congratulations on the success, Kismet. We've also put up two deer so far this year. I ended up doing 95% of the field dressing and skinning work with a karda. It did a better job than anything I've ever used.

I also tried a few khuks during different parts of the process. I found the Pen-knife good for splitting the breastbone on the larger animal as well as for skinning areas that don't require any fine cutting. The Pen-knife was best at removing forequarters and for the initial cuts along the sides of the spine to remove the backstraps. Once those cuts were made the backstraps were quickly taken off whole using the karda.

My 12" sirupati was not well-suited to any dressing or butchering tasks I tried with it. It has a very wide spine for it's length and I believe the blade on this knife is too thick. I didn't try a 15" AK for this reason.

I used an 18" AK to remove the forelegs an, like your AK, it also suffered minor edge deformation, which was easily corrected with a chakma and hone. This knife split the pelvic bone effortlessly and removed hindquarters efficiently.

I also tested the 18" AK to see if it would remove a deer head with one swing. It completely severed the spine and windpipe but did not quite make it all the way through the hide on the way out. I also tried it along the spine in several places after I was done butchering and it cleanly severed two out of three times in spite of my poor aim. The blade edge was undaunted by this.

In summary, I was able to efficiently process the second deer using only the Pen-knife and karda in the field and with the addition of an 18" AK at home.

Once on the table, the boning and fine trimming was done using the traditional Schrade and Fiskars. Kind of like your Marbles, good for the soul. :)
 
Like a small pine that sways as you cut, the deer spine is probably most fairly 'tested' by a Khuk if you had both ends of the deer fastened. A hanging deer would be the ticket to see how a khuk could do the job of severing. But even a 200+ pound deer woll sway and obsorb shock as ou strike it. The block must be the way to go for fair evaluation.

munk

Rag, yours are muleys, right?
 
Nope, they were both whitetails. The larger one was in the 150-160# range. I did the spine cutting tests while it was hanging and had all of the meat and extremities removed. I think the key was in cutting at a slightly downward angle.
 
Rag, I'm in a funny mood tonight. May I take this opportunity to say it is a shame we are not neighbors? I enjoy you and your posts very much.

munk
 
Congrats on your deer.

Haven't had the time to bow hunt this year but Kentucky's gun season comes in next Saturday and I hope to try a 16.5" Bura chiruwa out to see what it will do. It will be interesting to see if the blade holds up.
 
Haven't had the time to bow hunt this year but Kentucky's gun season comes in next Saturday and I hope to try a 16.5" Bura chiruwa out to see what it will do>> Semper fi

If you leap out and stab the deer, or hit it with a chopping stroke, the deer will die. I think that's what a chiruwa AK can do. Lol.


munk
 
Originally posted by munk
Rag, I'm in a funny mood tonight. May I take this opportunity to say it is a shame we are not neighbors? I enjoy you and your posts very much.

munk
Click to expand...

Thanks Munk, the sentiment is mutual. Technically I guess we are neighbors, our yards are just waaaay too big. ;)
 
Originally posted by munk
Haven't had the time to bow hunt this year but Kentucky's gun season comes in next Saturday and I hope to try a 16.5" Bura chiruwa out to see what it will do>> Semper fi

If you leap out and stab the deer, or hit it with a chopping stroke, the deer will die. I think that's what a chiruwa AK can do. Lol.


munk
Click to expand...

Actually, I was thinking of using my 30-06 first. If the deer doesn't go down with that, I may throw the K at it while I run the other way. :p
 
The darndest thing, Semper Fi, is I think more people die from deer than by rattlesnake bite every year.

I read this hunting story once where the hunter arrived at his 'dead' deer, started to slit it's throat and dress it out, only to have it come alive. He was stuck. He couldn't move or he'd lose his balance, couldn't quite get the knife in position, while he held tight to the antlers which would run him through if he relaxed.



munk
 
munk and raghorn, I feel the same way. If I have to visit my wife's folks up in Montana again, I'll make it a wide swing through so I can meet you both one way or another.
 
You'd be welcome here, Rusty. Got enough space to put you up. I'm always a little in almost-awe of you, because though I've read all my life, you seem to remember the quotes from the books.

Raghorn is actually too well rounded and healthy to end up spending time in my dysfunctional household. We might send him down to the tumbled down mining house below us.

munk
 
Kismet-

As far as I know, we are not having the Chronic Wasting Disease problem in the deer heards down here....yet. I figure it is a matter of time. Why is it so important to bone the meat during butchering? Is the disease spread from bone marrow? A lot of times, I keep & eat the lites....mostly heart & liver. I know that on some animals we have found "spots" & etc. on the liver, & some of the more experienced fellers have advised me to discard the meat when this happens. Is there anything specifically we can look for on the liver, lungs, heart, or etc. to determine is this is one that needs to be boned instead of leaving the bones in? Should we stop the practice of saving the liver & heart?

Thanks for your time. Sounds like something all of us better be thinking more about. So few of these 'would-be' hunters these days know how to get one out of the woods, much less how to save & use their kill.

I wonder if some of these diseases might be put-off if we waited til later in the year, when the weather is colder, to hunt. Sorta like waitin' til frost so the squirrels won't have "wolves" in them.
 
Why is it so important to bone the meat
during butchering? Is the disease spread from bone marrow?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that the infectious matter is thought to be concentrated in the brain and spinal chord. I never really understood the bone thing either--except for the backbone. Not cooking meat on bones was a response to the mad-cow stuff in Europe also.
 
I took a tranquilizer before responding, so this may be calm. If it seems like a rant, please excuse me, it's nothing personal.

Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) is a fatal disease of cervids (deer, elk, etc.) It appears to be caused by a protein callled a prion...which modifies other proteins, specifically in the brain and spinal tissue, and causes a deformation of them (spongeiform) which results in a condition not unlike Mad Cow Disease.

OK. That is what is known.

What is NOT known is: How it is acquired, how it is transmitted, whether it is genetic, whether it is endemic to the species and has only been noticed lately, whether it can be transmitted to other ungulates (cows, for instance)[NO instance so far] and if so, HOW it might be, whether it can be contracted by humans [NO instance on record in spite of 3 false claims], whether any contact would have to be intravenous or if eating the flesh would lead to contamination, how long the dormancy period MIGHT be and if cooking the flesh might have any effect on the ingestor.

Based on this wealth of ignorance...WISC DNR (and politicians and media) are treating it like the plague...have implemented plans to eradicate (Yes, ERADICATE) 25,000 deer (like they could--all hills and woods, plus some folks who won't let ANY hunters on their property) in a er..10 mile circle around an area near the town of Mount Horeb, WI. There were three special hunting seasons for the eradication zone during the summer, and a recent four-day state wide hunt.(They harvested around 1,000 deer during the summer hunts. Two or three percent had CWD.)

Formerly, one could get, by paying extra and if there were licenses available, up to three or four tags for anlerless deer, in addtion to the buck tag that came with a deer license. This hunt...THIS HUNT...I could get four tags a DAY (actually eight, because I am a "patron" license holder) if I shot a doe, then I could shoot a buck...or I could just shoot (I think EIGHT DOES A DAY) for the hunt. (Ok, I'm ranting...deep breaths, slow, deep breaths)

What has happened is...VAST numbers of folks won't hunt; others are dumping deer they shot, tourist hunters from Illinois aren't coming because the deer carcasses can't be transported over state lines, small communities who depend on the deer-season sportsmen are going to be devastated, and (have I mentioned?) no one knows anything.

Oh, also...Wisc. DNR has no place to put the carcasses of the deer from the eradication zone, nor will any incinerator take them.

By the way, Wyoming, Colorado, and maybe Montana have had instances of CWD for over 15 years with no effect on the deer herd, the cattle, and the humans who live there. And, none on the hunters who harvest the Elk and deer.

Boning the meat is a precaution recommended by DNR. Not invading the spinal column or brain pan is strongly recommended.


(There is a human disease that has a similar effect. It is found, or was found, in New Guinea?, in cultures that ATE the brains of their ancestors [one presumes after the ancestors died] as an homage.)

So, I boned the deer, and buried the bones and skull. I did not invade any marrow-bearing body structure. Did I need to? I doubt it. As much as anything, I did it to ally fears of of people I knew who worried about me.

Do a Google search on CWD...read as much as you can...including the terror messages...and make up your own mind. To me, this is a cluster-somethingorother.

Kis
:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by munk
Raghorn is actually too well rounded and healthy to end up spending time in my dysfunctional household. We might send him down to the tumbled down mining house below us.
Click to expand...

:D :D :D Glad to see I got you snowed, too!
 
Thanks Kis-

I figured I would get good info from somebody who was there; & I did. Thank you for taking the time to do such a complete explanation. As usual, the dayem politicians have gotten involved, & turned it into a circle jerk. I am really outdone with what hunting has become around here. Way too many animals are killed, or crippled, & in the case of the killed ones, discarded.......the thinking being "oh, I don't eat them, I just hunt them!" Every animal, with maybe the exception of house cats in the woods, deserve more respect than that.....whether they are squirrels or bears.

Down here, the 'officials' have gotten the herds so unbalanced the deer have gotten to be a real nuisance. But then so have the coyotes. The powers that be have a real tender heart for the coyotes & as a result, I know of several fellers who have lost rabbit & bird dogs to them while hunting.

About this time every year, my neighbor & I talk about painting 'dog' on the sides of the dogs, 'horse' on the side of the horses & etc. These dudes ride out from town in their vans & shoot at anything that moves from the road, then drive off. Have had my house shot, dogs shot at, & etc.

Thanks for your help & the good info. Gotta quit & get some chicken marinating in some homebrew. Tomorrow is an off day!!
 
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