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Good help, good stuff, and many thanks.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
15 inch AK a little too much...
- Thread starter Kismet
- Start date
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- Jan 30, 2002
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Any time I can return the help you show (on a daily basis), I'm happy to. You are a good example...well, maybe not the cigs and beer, er...ok...in some things you...er.....in one way.....er, every now and then.... er.... once in a while. Uh. You're welcome.
Kis
Kis
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- Jan 30, 2002
- Messages
- 7,269
Granted, there's not much they can do about it, but now we know.
The ban on baiting and feeding deer will be made more stringent, I suspect.
Other changes to be seen.
Here's NYTIMES article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/science/...tml?ref=science
September 10, 2009
Study Spells Out Spread of Brain Illness in Animals
By SANDRA BLAKESLEE
Researchers are reporting that they have solved a longstanding mystery about the rapid spread of a fatal brain infection in deer, elk and moose in the Midwest and West.
The infectious agent, which leads to chronic wasting disease, is spread in the feces of infected animals long before they become ill, according to a study published online Wednesday by the journal Nature. The agent is retained in the soil, where it, along with plants, is eaten by other animals, which then become infected.
The finding explains the extremely high rates of transmission among deer, said the studys lead author, Dr. Stanley B. Prusiner, director of the Institute for Neurodegenerative Diseases at the University of California, San Francisco.
First identified in deer in Colorado in 1967, the disease is now found throughout 14 states and 2 Canadian provinces. It leads to emaciation, staggering and death.
Unlike other animals, Dr. Prusiner said, deer give off the infectious agent, a form of protein called a prion, from lymph tissue in their intestinal linings up to a year before they develop the disease. By contrast, cattle that develop a related disease, mad cow, do not easily shed prions into the environment but accumulate them in their brains and spinal tissues.
There is no evidence to date that humans who hunt, kill and eat deer have developed chronic wasting disease. Nor does the prion that causes it pass naturally to other animal species in the wild.
Besides mad cow and chronic wasting disease, the prion diseases include Creutzfeldt-Jakob, which leads to dementia and death in humans. Each of these diseases is caused by a different strain, and all strains behave somewhat differently.
In the case of chronic wasting disease, it turns out prions exploit the oldest trick in the book used by pathogens and parasites, said Mike Miller, a veterinarian at the Colorado Division of Wildlife who is an expert on chronic wasting disease.
Fecal-oral transmission is very effective, Dr. Miller continued.
Each deer excretes about two pounds of fecal pellets a day. As wild herds move around, or captive herds are trucked between states, more soil becomes infected.
In captive herds, up to 90 percent of animals develop the disease, Dr. Prusiner said. In wild herds, a third of animals can be infected.
This is an important finding, said Judd M. Aiken, a leading prion expert who is director of the Alberta Veterinary Research Institute in Canada and who was not involved in the new study. Most of us suspected that prions might be spread in feces, but we needed proof.
The fact that prions are shed at a preclinical stage of the disease is very significant, Dr. Aiken added.
The study was carried out in two parts. First, Dr. Miller and his team infected five mule deer by feeding them brain tissue from an infected animal. They took fecal samples before infection and at three to six months afterward. The deer came down with chronic wasting disease 16 to 20 months later.
Four to nine months after infection, the deer began shedding prions in low levels in their feces, even though they had no symptoms. Surprisingly, an infected deer could shed as many prions at this stage as would accumulate in its brain during terminal disease.
In the second part of the experiment, Erdem Tamguney, an assistant professor at Dr. Prusiners institute, created a strain of mice with deerlike prions in their brains.
When Dr. Tamguney inoculated the brains of these mice with feces from infected but asymptomatic deer, half developed symptoms of chronic wasting disease. Fourteen out of 15 fecal samples transmitted the disease to some of the mice.
Dr. Aiken said prions tended to bind to clay in soil and to persist indefinitely. When deer graze on infected dirt, prions that are tightly bound to clay will persist for long periods in their intestinal regions. So there is no chance chronic wasting disease will be eradicated, he said. Outside the laboratory, nothing can inactivate prions bound to soil. They are also impervious to radiation
The ban on baiting and feeding deer will be made more stringent, I suspect.
Other changes to be seen.
Here's NYTIMES article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/science/...tml?ref=science
September 10, 2009
Study Spells Out Spread of Brain Illness in Animals
By SANDRA BLAKESLEE
Researchers are reporting that they have solved a longstanding mystery about the rapid spread of a fatal brain infection in deer, elk and moose in the Midwest and West.
The infectious agent, which leads to chronic wasting disease, is spread in the feces of infected animals long before they become ill, according to a study published online Wednesday by the journal Nature. The agent is retained in the soil, where it, along with plants, is eaten by other animals, which then become infected.
The finding explains the extremely high rates of transmission among deer, said the studys lead author, Dr. Stanley B. Prusiner, director of the Institute for Neurodegenerative Diseases at the University of California, San Francisco.
First identified in deer in Colorado in 1967, the disease is now found throughout 14 states and 2 Canadian provinces. It leads to emaciation, staggering and death.
Unlike other animals, Dr. Prusiner said, deer give off the infectious agent, a form of protein called a prion, from lymph tissue in their intestinal linings up to a year before they develop the disease. By contrast, cattle that develop a related disease, mad cow, do not easily shed prions into the environment but accumulate them in their brains and spinal tissues.
There is no evidence to date that humans who hunt, kill and eat deer have developed chronic wasting disease. Nor does the prion that causes it pass naturally to other animal species in the wild.
Besides mad cow and chronic wasting disease, the prion diseases include Creutzfeldt-Jakob, which leads to dementia and death in humans. Each of these diseases is caused by a different strain, and all strains behave somewhat differently.
In the case of chronic wasting disease, it turns out prions exploit the oldest trick in the book used by pathogens and parasites, said Mike Miller, a veterinarian at the Colorado Division of Wildlife who is an expert on chronic wasting disease.
Fecal-oral transmission is very effective, Dr. Miller continued.
Each deer excretes about two pounds of fecal pellets a day. As wild herds move around, or captive herds are trucked between states, more soil becomes infected.
In captive herds, up to 90 percent of animals develop the disease, Dr. Prusiner said. In wild herds, a third of animals can be infected.
This is an important finding, said Judd M. Aiken, a leading prion expert who is director of the Alberta Veterinary Research Institute in Canada and who was not involved in the new study. Most of us suspected that prions might be spread in feces, but we needed proof.
The fact that prions are shed at a preclinical stage of the disease is very significant, Dr. Aiken added.
The study was carried out in two parts. First, Dr. Miller and his team infected five mule deer by feeding them brain tissue from an infected animal. They took fecal samples before infection and at three to six months afterward. The deer came down with chronic wasting disease 16 to 20 months later.
Four to nine months after infection, the deer began shedding prions in low levels in their feces, even though they had no symptoms. Surprisingly, an infected deer could shed as many prions at this stage as would accumulate in its brain during terminal disease.
In the second part of the experiment, Erdem Tamguney, an assistant professor at Dr. Prusiners institute, created a strain of mice with deerlike prions in their brains.
When Dr. Tamguney inoculated the brains of these mice with feces from infected but asymptomatic deer, half developed symptoms of chronic wasting disease. Fourteen out of 15 fecal samples transmitted the disease to some of the mice.
Dr. Aiken said prions tended to bind to clay in soil and to persist indefinitely. When deer graze on infected dirt, prions that are tightly bound to clay will persist for long periods in their intestinal regions. So there is no chance chronic wasting disease will be eradicated, he said. Outside the laboratory, nothing can inactivate prions bound to soil. They are also impervious to radiation
- Joined
- May 9, 2002
- Messages
- 12,685
Whew..I was having deja vu for a second. I thought I had read this thread before
Great info for the hunters out there.
Great info for the hunters out there.
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2003
- Messages
- 13,182
Wow. Shedding prions in the manure! Hope the other prior diseases don't learn that one!
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2002
- Messages
- 2,845
Turning on the way-back machine?
Your update has some pretty disturbing developments for prion-related diseases. I wonder why the fecal transmission mode is exclusive to deer - and if other species could develop this. It would be problematic for all the organic farms that use manure as fertilizer.
Prions are like the zombies of the disease world - can't kill them because they're not alive. Vonnegut's Ice-9 also comes to mind. Prions turn other good proteins bad.
Thanks for the update!
Your update has some pretty disturbing developments for prion-related diseases. I wonder why the fecal transmission mode is exclusive to deer - and if other species could develop this. It would be problematic for all the organic farms that use manure as fertilizer.
Prions are like the zombies of the disease world - can't kill them because they're not alive. Vonnegut's Ice-9 also comes to mind. Prions turn other good proteins bad.
Thanks for the update!
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2004
- Messages
- 2,512
The local paper here had a front page article on CWD in the Sunday edition:
LINK
Rate of fatal deer disease will increase in southern Wisconsin
Sunday, Sept. 13, 2009
JANESVILLE Deadly chronic wasting disease will continue to spread, threatening the states deer population and hunting culture for years to come, a national expert said.
Just from a conservation standpoint, thinking about the deer herd out there, this is not a good thing, said Bryan Richards, CWD project leader for the U.S Geological Surveys National Wildlife Health Center in Madison.
People may well choose to go hunting elsewhere.
The rate of the disease in bucks 2½ years old in western Dane County and eastern Iowa County, for example, was 15.5 percent in 2008, up from 10 percent in 2007, according to the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources.
The prevalence in yearling bucks was 6 percent in 2008, double the previous year.
I think that outcome was anticipated at least by those of us that have spent time looking at disease trends in other areas, Richards said.
A gradual increase in the rate of the disease is expected to continue in the future, he said.
In Colorado and Wyoming, CWD slowly increased in deer over time, eventually infecting about 30 percent of deer in some herds, said Dennis Heisey, CWD research biologist for the National Wildlife Health Center.
Wisconsin likely will follow that trend, Richards said.
In Wisconsin, our state numbers are much lower than that, he said. But over time, there is no reason to think we wont get there.
If that happens, evidence suggests hunters will go elsewhere, threatening the states hunting culture as a recreation and boon to the economy, Richards said.
Although research shows the disease is not threatening to humans or livestock, hunters likely would not want to hunt in areas where so many deer have CWD, he said.
And, if hunters leave, the deer herd would explode, Richards said.
Overpopulation could lead to more deer-vehicle collisions, crop damage and suburban encounters, he said.
Lots of things go wrong when you have too many deer, Richards said.
CWD was discovered in southern Wisconsin in February 2002. Nearly 152,000 deer have been tested for the disease, with 1,172 testing positive.
The DNR created a CWD management zone to minimize the spread of the disease. The zone includes all or parts of 16 counties in south-central Wisconsin, including Rock, Walworth, Jefferson and Green counties.
The DNR wants to manage the disease through continued population reduction. The deer population in the CWD management zone is lower than in recent years, but remains higher than population goals, according to the DNR.
Hunters in the zone can use rifles instead of shotguns, enjoy a holiday gun season and kill an unlimited number of bucks for every antlerless deer they shoot first.
Officials reviewing CWD management plan
The Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources has proposed a new chronic wasting disease management plan that aims to minimize the number of infected deer and stop the spread of the fatal disease.
The DNRs previous goal was to try and eradicate the disease, said Dan Jones, the DNRs CWD assistant biologist.
The strategy changed after seven years of CWD management failed to prevent an increase in the infection rate and an acceptance that the disease is not going away, according to the DNR.
Its become increasingly obvious that this was going to be a long-term management effort, Jones said. It definitely wont be something that just goes away overnight.
Hopefully, we can reduce it.
The Wisconsin Natural Resources Board recently tabled the revised plan and voted to appoint a special committee to review it. The committee is expected to report back to the board at its December meeting.
According to the DNR, the CWD management plans key strategies include:
-- Preventing new outbreaks of CWD. Stopping CWD from cropping up in new areas of the state is less expensive and less damaging than fighting the disease after its established.
-- Responding to new disease locations. Aggressively responding if CWD is discovered in a new area is the best option for control.
-- Controlling distribution and intensity of CWD. This includes reducing the number of deer in infected areas through hunting and other methods.
-- Increasing public recognition and understanding of CWD risks. Residents must be informed of the latest scientific knowledge and recommendations for managing the disease.
-- Addressing the needs of hunters and residents. This includes deer testing, donating venison to food pantries, disposing of deer carcasses, monitoring for human prion diseases and examining potential risk to livestock.
-- Enhancing the scientific information about CWD with research, funding for university research and collaborating in studies conducted nationally and internationally.
How can I get my deer tested for CWD?
If hunters want their deer tested for chronic wasting disease, several local registration stations can help.
Seven stations in Rock, Walworth and Green counties work with the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources to test deer for CWD.
Mike Foy, DNR wildlife biologist for Rock and Green County, said many local hunters voluntarily test their deer for CWD.
There are people who do it for health reasons, there are people who do it because theyre interested in the disease, and there are people who do it because we ask them to, he said.
The World Health Organization advises people to only eat meat from animals that test negative for CWD, Foy said.
Yet research shows the disease is not threatening to humans, said Bryan Richards, CWD project leader for the U.S Geological Surveys National Wildlife Health Center in Madison.
The bottom line is science is in the beginning stage of knowledge and research on CWD, Foy said.
Why take a chance? he said. Lets err on the side of caution until we know more.
When you kill a deer, take it to one of the registration stations helping with CWD testing, said Dan Jones, CWD assistant biologist for the DNR.
The registration station will collect your deers head and your contact information, he said. In some cases, lymph nodes can be taken from the deers neck for testing.
A number is assigned to the deer, and the head goes to a DNR testing lab, Jones said.
The result of the test is mailed to you on a postcard, he said. If the test is positive, youll get a phone call.
Hunters can have their deer tested for free, Jones said, and results will be returned in four to six weeks.
Veterinarians will test for a fee.
Testing is voluntary except in mandatory zones, including the eastern half of Rock County and the western half of Walworth County, he said.
Nearly 152,000 deer in Wisconsin have been tested for CWD, with 1,173 testing positive.
In Rock County, 5,917 deer have been analyzed for CWD, with 70 testing positive.
In Walworth County, 5,428 deer have been tested for CWD, with 54 testing positive.
The DNR plans to sample 8,250 adult deer in 2009.
At any rate, an Ang Khola is pretty good at lopping off a deer head.
LINK
Rate of fatal deer disease will increase in southern Wisconsin
Sunday, Sept. 13, 2009
JANESVILLE Deadly chronic wasting disease will continue to spread, threatening the states deer population and hunting culture for years to come, a national expert said.
Just from a conservation standpoint, thinking about the deer herd out there, this is not a good thing, said Bryan Richards, CWD project leader for the U.S Geological Surveys National Wildlife Health Center in Madison.
People may well choose to go hunting elsewhere.
The rate of the disease in bucks 2½ years old in western Dane County and eastern Iowa County, for example, was 15.5 percent in 2008, up from 10 percent in 2007, according to the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources.
The prevalence in yearling bucks was 6 percent in 2008, double the previous year.
I think that outcome was anticipated at least by those of us that have spent time looking at disease trends in other areas, Richards said.
A gradual increase in the rate of the disease is expected to continue in the future, he said.
In Colorado and Wyoming, CWD slowly increased in deer over time, eventually infecting about 30 percent of deer in some herds, said Dennis Heisey, CWD research biologist for the National Wildlife Health Center.
Wisconsin likely will follow that trend, Richards said.
In Wisconsin, our state numbers are much lower than that, he said. But over time, there is no reason to think we wont get there.
If that happens, evidence suggests hunters will go elsewhere, threatening the states hunting culture as a recreation and boon to the economy, Richards said.
Although research shows the disease is not threatening to humans or livestock, hunters likely would not want to hunt in areas where so many deer have CWD, he said.
And, if hunters leave, the deer herd would explode, Richards said.
Overpopulation could lead to more deer-vehicle collisions, crop damage and suburban encounters, he said.
Lots of things go wrong when you have too many deer, Richards said.
CWD was discovered in southern Wisconsin in February 2002. Nearly 152,000 deer have been tested for the disease, with 1,172 testing positive.
The DNR created a CWD management zone to minimize the spread of the disease. The zone includes all or parts of 16 counties in south-central Wisconsin, including Rock, Walworth, Jefferson and Green counties.
The DNR wants to manage the disease through continued population reduction. The deer population in the CWD management zone is lower than in recent years, but remains higher than population goals, according to the DNR.
Hunters in the zone can use rifles instead of shotguns, enjoy a holiday gun season and kill an unlimited number of bucks for every antlerless deer they shoot first.
Officials reviewing CWD management plan
The Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources has proposed a new chronic wasting disease management plan that aims to minimize the number of infected deer and stop the spread of the fatal disease.
The DNRs previous goal was to try and eradicate the disease, said Dan Jones, the DNRs CWD assistant biologist.
The strategy changed after seven years of CWD management failed to prevent an increase in the infection rate and an acceptance that the disease is not going away, according to the DNR.
Its become increasingly obvious that this was going to be a long-term management effort, Jones said. It definitely wont be something that just goes away overnight.
Hopefully, we can reduce it.
The Wisconsin Natural Resources Board recently tabled the revised plan and voted to appoint a special committee to review it. The committee is expected to report back to the board at its December meeting.
According to the DNR, the CWD management plans key strategies include:
-- Preventing new outbreaks of CWD. Stopping CWD from cropping up in new areas of the state is less expensive and less damaging than fighting the disease after its established.
-- Responding to new disease locations. Aggressively responding if CWD is discovered in a new area is the best option for control.
-- Controlling distribution and intensity of CWD. This includes reducing the number of deer in infected areas through hunting and other methods.
-- Increasing public recognition and understanding of CWD risks. Residents must be informed of the latest scientific knowledge and recommendations for managing the disease.
-- Addressing the needs of hunters and residents. This includes deer testing, donating venison to food pantries, disposing of deer carcasses, monitoring for human prion diseases and examining potential risk to livestock.
-- Enhancing the scientific information about CWD with research, funding for university research and collaborating in studies conducted nationally and internationally.
How can I get my deer tested for CWD?
If hunters want their deer tested for chronic wasting disease, several local registration stations can help.
Seven stations in Rock, Walworth and Green counties work with the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources to test deer for CWD.
Mike Foy, DNR wildlife biologist for Rock and Green County, said many local hunters voluntarily test their deer for CWD.
There are people who do it for health reasons, there are people who do it because theyre interested in the disease, and there are people who do it because we ask them to, he said.
The World Health Organization advises people to only eat meat from animals that test negative for CWD, Foy said.
Yet research shows the disease is not threatening to humans, said Bryan Richards, CWD project leader for the U.S Geological Surveys National Wildlife Health Center in Madison.
The bottom line is science is in the beginning stage of knowledge and research on CWD, Foy said.
Why take a chance? he said. Lets err on the side of caution until we know more.
When you kill a deer, take it to one of the registration stations helping with CWD testing, said Dan Jones, CWD assistant biologist for the DNR.
The registration station will collect your deers head and your contact information, he said. In some cases, lymph nodes can be taken from the deers neck for testing.
A number is assigned to the deer, and the head goes to a DNR testing lab, Jones said.
The result of the test is mailed to you on a postcard, he said. If the test is positive, youll get a phone call.
Hunters can have their deer tested for free, Jones said, and results will be returned in four to six weeks.
Veterinarians will test for a fee.
Testing is voluntary except in mandatory zones, including the eastern half of Rock County and the western half of Walworth County, he said.
Nearly 152,000 deer in Wisconsin have been tested for CWD, with 1,173 testing positive.
In Rock County, 5,917 deer have been analyzed for CWD, with 70 testing positive.
In Walworth County, 5,428 deer have been tested for CWD, with 54 testing positive.
The DNR plans to sample 8,250 adult deer in 2009.
At any rate, an Ang Khola is pretty good at lopping off a deer head.
Let's hope that this doesn't become a problem in Texas!
Thanks to Kismet for reviving this old thread, as well as to Suicyco for the extra information. As someone who doesn't hunt yet, it's good to know in advance what a khuk & karda can, and cannot, do in the way of butchering and field-dressing. Overall, while I'll still want my M43 when I take on Texas's population of feral hogs, I'm increasingly grateful to Yangdu for that R6!
Thanks to Kismet for reviving this old thread, as well as to Suicyco for the extra information. As someone who doesn't hunt yet, it's good to know in advance what a khuk & karda can, and cannot, do in the way of butchering and field-dressing. Overall, while I'll still want my M43 when I take on Texas's population of feral hogs, I'm increasingly grateful to Yangdu for that R6!
