154 cm pros and cons

dantzk8 said:
Not stronger, tougher.

yes stronger. i took a camillus airforce survival knife in 1095 and hammered the living shit out of it as hard as i could about 200 times with a freakin sharp ass tool and basically serrated the knife and then sharpened it with a carbide sharpener and it is as strong as ever. although it has a bit more character now it is the strongest knife i have seen. i also have an ontario knife co. military machete of high carbon steel an it too i have tested and bashed as hard as i could trying to damage the blade and it barely and i mean barely shows any sign of mistreatment. i know it's cruel to do that to a knife and what not but i wan't to see for my self what these steels are capable of. i recently saw a 105mm anti-tank round with a tungsten alloy slug in it; i wonder if that would be a strong knife making metal seeing as how it is used to penetrate tank armor. it would have to be a strong metal to not disintigrate on impact with about 10 lbs of gun powder propelling it.
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i now have had the griptillian,9050,and the 730 ares rust in less time than aus8a cold steel ak 47. i had the ak for almost a year in worse conditions than the benchmades and took less care of the ak and the bm knives rusted within 4-5 months. i love bm but if failed the test in that area as well.
 
I have a BM551 that's fairly new, but I'm a residential and industrial construction worker and I've used the knife at work every day. I haven't experienced any chipping what so ever, and I'm very pleased with the knife. Very easy to sharpen up, reasonably holds it edge, and it's very tough.
 
If it is chipping, something is wrong with the heat treat. If Cliff Stamp said what was stated above, he is wrong. However I would think he would know better. But may be not. Of course it is tempered hot. That is what tempering is. Heating the steel to a pre determined temp. to draw the brittleness out of it. Most companies do heat treat and temper before grinding. Just the opposite. They want the steel in the soft. Or annealed state. This saves a lot of labor cost. Not to mention wear and tear on the tooling.


440-C better than 154-cm? How so. 154-cm IS 440-C, with additives to increase its hot-hardness. If you will go to Crucibles site, you will see it listed as modified 440-C.

Stainless is for surgical instruments? You are correct! Surgical stainless is stainless formulated to not corrode at the temperature it is steamed at to prevent bacteria. It has nothing to do with its edge holding capabilities. If you find a Knife marked Surgical Stainless, avoid it like the plague!!! 154-CM is not a true Stainless Steel. It is called that in the knife industry to simply differentiate it from the simple carbon steels. It is a true high carbon steel with enough chromium added to help it withstand harsh environments. True stainless steel is not a high carbon steel. Think of it as really nothing more than a cheap cold rolled type of steel with a boat load of chromium added to prevent corrosion. Two entirely different types of steel.

I have been building Hand Made Knives out of 154-CM, and Ats-34 for over 30 years and have experienced the chipping problem with exactly "ONE" knife in all these years. As I said. It is all in the heat treat. Mike
 
i say get the zero tolerance 0200. it has a wonderful 154cm blade and is built like a fixed blade. it is par or better than some fixed blades i have.:)
 
i recently saw a 105mm anti-tank round with a tungsten alloy slug in it; i wonder if that would be a strong knife making metal seeing as how it is used to penetrate tank armor. it would have to be a strong metal to not disintigrate on impact with about 10 lbs of gun powder propelling it
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Tungsten knives are an impracticality due to brittleness, difficulty sharpening, grinding, working etc. Very hard stuff. As it is it makes a great additive and some of my all time favorites have some in it. It's typically used in high speed steel for it's "red hardness"

steels containing tungsten. Not a comprehensive list, more mastiffs favorites:
ZDP 189, M2, Super blue High Carbon, W1, and one of my all time favorites, Vascowear. Ones I'd like to try; D3, F8,CPM M4, 20CV, Joe
ZDP 189
 
the sharpest and best edge-retention knives I've owned have all been 154CM/ATS-34.
Microtech Socom, a mini, a small RJ Martin, a couple of customs, an old Spydie..... great stuff.
 
TEV said:
I carried a griptilian with 154cm for over a year as my work knife. I will say that what you describe has not happened to mine and use mine very heavily. Iv used it as a pry-bar, chisel, screwdriver ect. What I like about 154cm is that is pretty cheap. I can afford $50 for a griptilian to break or chip but that really hasn't happened yet.

What I dont like about it is that it seems hard to get razor sharp. If you do get it razor sharp it doesn't last long. It will stay moderetly sharp for a very long time tho.

With all that said, Id much prefer s30v in a benchmade.
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Steel it. I swipe mine down a kitchen steel a few times a week. It hasn't been sharpened yet, and it's sharper than factory :)
 
Michael Lovett said:
440-C better than 154-cm? How so. 154-cm IS 440-C, with additives to increase its hot-hardness. If you will go to Crucibles site, you will see it listed as modified 440-C.

Mike
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Mike, 440c is not far behind 154cm in edge holding, but it is usually tempered softer and therefore less prone to chipping. I'm not talking about handmade knives in small batches, but production knives that is churned out by the hundreds a day, which have more problems with QC. 154cm/ats34 tempered soft is just a waste of material and there are better steels for softer and tougher applications, steels like aus8, 440c, etc., and they're also cheaper. When I say 440c is better than 154cm, I meant it's only better for situations that require higher toughness and PRODUCTION pieces only.

By the way, machining after final tempering is only for polishing and imperfection checks. Even just polishing, hardened steel still wear down belts a lot. I'm not talking about stock grinding that's before the harding and tempering.
 
Nimravus Nut said:
Cliff Stamp, has mentioned in one of the posts, that the reason why benchmade 154cm is so brittle is that they temper the steel hot (for machining purpose) but that created carbide percipation (which induced boundaries between molecules) and that caused microscopic fractures if the blade experiences side loading.
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You may ask BM themselves but i guess, they will just follow the advices from crucible, as any other maker would do. I know, because they have told me, that they do recommended heat treatment on D2 and guess with 154Cm it is just the same.

They are very frank about this theme, so someone may ask them directly.
 
Blop said:
You may ask BM themselves but i guess, they will just follow the advices from crucible, as any other maker would do. I know, because they have told me, that they do recommended heat treatment on D2 and guess with 154Cm it is just the same.

They are very frank about this theme, so someone may ask them directly.
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In a recent post concerning S30v, there was a little war going on, but I did learn from Jerry Hossom that most custom makers do share heat treatment information. But I believe there are also small differences in how they finalize heat treatment, it's evident in the performance between manufacturers.

In your statement, if most manufacturers do follow the crucible heat treat guideline then all knives of the same steel should perform the same. Then, what u really mean is that it doesn't matter if its Benchmade or Spyderco or Chris Reeves it should all perform the same?
 
I have had great luck with the 2 or 3 I have had. Everyone comes up with a lemon now and then! I'd call Benchmade.
 
With a proper heat treatment 154CM is great steel, without it of course it sucks, it's America's AST34, both steels in the top 3 SS ever made IMO, some might say number one, tough as nails as they say and hard, keeps a great edge a good long time, easier to sharpen then the newer so called super steels like S30V.

440C is a great steel as well, in the top five SS i'm sure, but not in the same class as 154CM and cost less.

Bechmade has a long history of bad heat treatments on many steels i would say, i have seen many broken Bechmade knife blades over the past 10 years plus. BTW not all bad, but i must say i have do not have one BM myself.

Try a pre junk (pre 2002) Microtech in 154CM and you will see it's a great steel.

Con wise, i wish is was cheaper i guess and easier for the makers to work with. hehe

Good steel guild.

http://www.engnath.com/public/steel.htm


James
 
Having dealt with Benchmade for quite a while, if I had ever experienced chipping in one of their knives, I would have returned it immediately.

Their customer service is outstanding. They would much rather replace a blade than have an unhappy customer.:)
 
I had a HK Benchmade 14200, and its 154cm also chipped. It chipped while doing light chopping on branches though. Not from cutting. Still seemed very wierd cuz it chipped alot,
Matt
 
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