154CM vs. D2 (mostly in Benchmades ...mostly)

Dave,

I've been too far away from using my M2 blades to tell you anytime soon. Also, now that I'm getting slightly better as a sharpening geek, I'm finding that all of the mid-to-high end (420HC and up) steel is good for my uses.
 
Originally posted by thombrogan
Dave,

I've been too far away from using my M2 blades to tell you anytime soon. Also, now that I'm getting slightly better as a sharpening geek, I'm finding that all of the mid-to-high end (420HC and up) steel is good for my uses.
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You were a lot of help! :rolleyes: :p


On another note Thom, I received a drawing from Mike Stewart of his new slipjoint. He was interested in comments, ideas and feeback about it. It looks like it will be a great little slipjoint! I rather enjoy having a knifemaker/producer asking and listening for my suggestions. If you ever get over to Knifeforums head down to the Bark River Knives forum and take a look for a thread titled "Slipjoint" or something similar.
 
shgeo :

I often wonder why some companies harden to lower values (57-58) when they actually lose toughness.
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I have seen references (Bryson) to a greater grain refinement from high tempers (960,900 F, 58 HRC) vs a a low temper (400 F,62 HRC), some makers like R.J. Martin will use this arguement. For most production though you are looking at manufacturing issues such as it being difficult to get anything beyond 58 HRC without an oil quench, and subjected to the problems of most production quenching which is a heated bath due to lack of circulation, or simply repeated quenching.

-Cliff
 
Originally posted by Easyrider
I rather enjoy having a knifemaker/producer asking and listening for my suggestions.
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Guess why Spyderco is my favorite knife company! C'mon, guess! Benchmade and Extrema Ratio make some of my favorite knives (921 Switchback, Nemesis, Fulcrum II D), but guess who my favorite is!

Sorry I wasn't able to provide you with a definitive answer or even more of my highly-biased hype. I prefer lower-chrome steels, such as M2, but I've been seeing everything work awesome for my stainless folder collection these days.

edited to add
Hey, you're on Slipjoint Jury Duty! You're not supposed to discuss the trial here!
 
Originally posted by Cliff Stamp
shgeo :



I have seen references (Bryson) to a greater grain refinement from high tempers (960,900 F, 58 HRC) vs a a low temper (400 F,62 HRC), some makers like R.J. Martin will use this arguement.

-Cliff
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A grain refinement there? I thought hat the grain comes finer using higher hardening temps. Higher tempering leads to finer carbides...

But hardness is not touched by this. You can go up to 60 or more.

I guess hardness is not the question. This all depends on the amount and size of the carbides. A normaly htéd D2 contains more larger primary carbides.

Asked someone of a steel mill about this and he said, the best ht is on high temp.
 
Originally posted by stjames
That's Damn Yankees!
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If you believe my Wife (Born in Alabama), you place a three letter word begining with a "G" in front of "Damn Yankee"(I'm from New York") At least that is what she says after I just bought another knife.

:rolleyes: :D
 
Blop :

I thought hat the grain comes finer using higher hardening temps.
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The grain structure is effected by many factors including the sructure before the soak, how long and how hot it is soaked, the quench and the tempering time/temperature. For some specifics on D2 temperated at high/low see Bryson "Heat Treatment, Selection and Application of Tool Steels". Last I checked with R.J. Martin he also recommend the use of the lower hardness on D2 because of the grain refinement and the greater wear resistance.

-Cliff
 
O. K. i just use one blade of a kind i talk of. But i use a D2, that was hardened at about 1070°C and tempered at 500°C.

I really do like this blade. I don´t know how tough it is. By a stock of .15" it is more stiff and i seldom abuse knifes. But it wears very little, has not the carbide chips as i saw it on normal treated D2 by BM. It takes a nice fine edge and holds it for long.

It is hardened to 59HRC. If this is meant by low, o.k.

Kuenzli, a swiss knifemaker offers D2 at 57HRC for outdoor knifes. After all, that profs told me, i would stay away from this, because i think you get a similar tough blade with higher hardness and finer grain, going a different way of ht.

But, your definatly right, it all depends an the quality of material, means how good it was produced in the beginnig. If those primary carbides grow too much, many say, you can do nearly nothing to get it right.

Again, what i have seen: For general use 154CM might be the better choice (actually i enjoy it. It´s easy to maintain, a steeling and stropping a week, since three weeks, very sharp), for a more specialized use or use in dirty enviroment(?) D2 might be the steel of choice.
 
58 HRC is the lower hardness for higher wear resistance, 62 HRC is the upper, you can of course get all manner inbetween. I would agree that going low on the hardness to get toughness for larger blades isn't a good idea, you are better off in chosing a different steel.

-Cliff
 
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