154CM vs D2 vs ZDP-189

T

therulebookman

Joined
May 10, 2007
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I have a few questions about each of these steels.

First, I think I want to get a BM grip in D2 but cabelas is backordered and i'm impatient so I'm considering the 154CM version but I've read the tip is not very strong on 154CM blades? anyone had any experience with prying and/or screwdriving with 154CM blades?

I've read about ZDP and it seems to be the uber-steel, and i'd love one of those blades but cant afford the kershaw mini-cyclone and I'm not convinced giving up the axis lock and thumbstud is worth it to get the ZDP endura. Does anyone have one and just love it? If so why do you love it so much and how tough is that blade, not just for cutting...prying too?

I think I could pop for the BM 710 in D2 which everyone seems to love, but I talked myself out of it last night for some reason...maybe its the seemingly thin blade/tip...how tough is that thing for non knife tasks?

Has anyone used the Ka-Bar dozier in D2? it looks like it would be a pretty good knife and its not too expensive, but I haven't heard anything about it. can someone point me to a review or do one themselves?

Thanks for the help!

-Dan
 
Prying and screw driving with 90% of pocket knives is a bad idea and will ruin the blade eventually, period. These things really shouldn't be your main concern with pocket knives.

All three of those steels are way too brittle for tasks like prying, but the Endura has the stoutest tip of all of them. ZDP has the best edge retention of the steels on most materials. Based on what you are saying and given your choices, the ZDP Endura is the best answer, especially since it's inexpensive for what you are getting, and could be conceivably replaced after you snap the tip off using it for things it wasn't made to do.

Personally, I would opt for a stout, lower carbon steel fixed blade in your applications.
 
I've had Cabelas' D2 mini-Grips, Spyderco's ZDP-189, and a bunch of stuff in 154CM. All 3 of those steels have performed well for me. D2 and ZDP-189 are a little harder to sharpen than 154CM, but they all make fine blades for folders.

Frankly, if you really want a Grip or mini-Grip, I'd go for the Doug Ritter version in S30V. I find the wide drop point style blade on the Ritters more useful for me than the narrower blades on the Cabelas/Benchmade standard versions and S30V has been a great blade steel for me.

If you really want something in ZDP-189 I'd try a Spyderco Delica or Endura.
 
m_calingo said:
Knives are for cutting. If you need to pry, you need a different tool.
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Agreed.

& there's a reason everyone "seems to love" (as you said) the BM710D2 - it's a great knife AND a great value. I recommend highly you talk yourself back into getting one, ;), doubtlessly you'll be very pleased with it.
 
Obviously a knife is not the optimal tool for prying, but a screwdriver isn't the optimal tool for opening paint cans but we all use them for that, and if we ever snap one while doing it we expect to get a new one from our lifetime warranty on said screwdriver.

I don't expect my future knife to be the best pry bar, I just want to know which one is going to hold up the best under these admittedly terrible conditions that I am bound to put my knife through. I expect all knives to cut, and some to cut better than others, I know that all of these steels will cut excellently which is why I am asking questions about their other properties.

additionally, ease of sharpening isn't a great concern for me, I'll be able to take some time to sharpen every now and then.

For future replies, lets just assume that I'm hunting for the 'best' knife that fits the bill, it doesn't have to be a freaking pry bar, i just want to know what it will do.
 
I don't like any of those steels for prying or screwdrivering. Carry a Leatherman or a Swiss Army Knife for weird tasks like that.
 
I have knives from all three steels and find they all perform very well. I think Zdp189 holds an edge longer but it can be sharpened on my Spyderco Sharpmaker. D2 and 154Cm seem to perform pretty close to each other but my D2 Diozier knives out perform just about everything. Great job that Bob does on D2. Zdp on my Spyderco Calypso is very sharp as well as my William Henry. MY WH 15 is a very nice knive and this ZDP does not show scratch marks like the Spyderco. No knife will survive being used as screwdriver or pry bar long. I found this out in my early years with my knives. By the way I think Knifeworks and GP knives may have A D2 Kabar liner lock in stock. They have been discontinued by Kabar. Good luck on your search for the right steel.
RKH
 
therulebookman said:
Obviously a knife is not the optimal tool for prying, but a screwdriver isn't the optimal tool for opening paint cans but we all use them for that, and if we ever snap one while doing it we expect to get a new one from our lifetime warranty on said screwdriver.
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Larrin said:
I don't like any of those steels for prying or screwdrivering. Carry a Leatherman or a Swiss Army Knife for weird tasks like that.
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+1 on Larrin's comment. I carry a blade and I carry a screwdriver / pry tool (LM micra) for that very reason.

And BTW. I open paint cans with a paint can opener. If I did mess up one of my Klein screwdrivers by using it for something beyond its design, I would not whine to the mfg about a warranty, I would admit my stupidity and buy a new screwdriver. (And I did. Both. Years ago, I used to use one of my screwdrivers to make holes in stucco. Messed up the bit in time. Got smart. Bought a new screwdriver and started carrying a cold chisel in my pouch for making those holes.)

Use the right tool for the job. You'll be amazed at how much easier the job becomes.
 
if your gonna use knives like a crazed mad man, just get cheap crap as knives are for cutting not for prying. Or if you want something for prying, get a pry bar. No knives can take prying. If you were to pry with any quality folder, it will break. I could break any folder whether it be custom or made in china=P

If you want a good quality folder that you will definatly love. Go for the 710--i love mine. The endura is awsome too=P
 
There are fixed blades and even some folders that have a tang extension in the rear which can be used to pry.
 
glen200300 said:
Rick Hinderer makes folders that can take anything you can throw at em -- prying included...
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Thank you for this useful information. I checked hinderers site and unfortunately, as much as i'd love an XM-18 i can't afford one. But I mention that because I couldn't find what steel he uses on his XM-18s. Does anyone know?

And for the naysayers out there, let me quote Rick Hinderer: "The standard Spanto blade is again the best of both worlds with maximum cutting potential in a blade with a durable tip for prying" straight from his website.

So, new question, whats the best replacement for the XM-18 in the ~$100 or under category. IE has a strong tip (even with no prying this is still important btw).
 
One of the things you get for $385 is a 0.165" thick blade. You also get custom made pivot pins. Both make for a way stronger knife. But cost big Bucks. So Part of what Rick sells is a big thick strong blade that is meant to take bloody anything. Different critter from any of the knives in your original post.

All of the three steels you have listed are known for edge retension, but not toughness. These properties are at odds with one another. Can't max out on both simultaneously. To increase one, you have to give up some on the other. Rough rule of thumb, but pretty generally true.

So if you really think that you will be prying, pushing, or digging with your blade, you might consider getting steel with a bit less edge retention and a bit more toughness. AUS8 springs to mind. It takes a good edge, holds it reasonably well, and is a bit tougher than the three steels above.

Why don't you look at a Cold Steel Voyager. I think the ones currently in stock in most places are AUS8, although Cold Steel is switching to VG1 steel. VG1 has different properties. I think for what you want, the AUS8 would be better. The Voyager line is made in several sizes. most of them run under $50 on-line.

You might also look at a CRKT M21 or M16. Be advised that the M16 especially is made in several steels. You want the more expensive models that have AUS8. They run about $50-$60 on-line, too.

If you can find a dealer who has stock (they've been discontinued), you could also consider an Ontario RAT-1 folder. Runs about $80 IIRC.

If, on the other hand you want a slicer, something that will not need sharpening as often, but is meant for cutting only, any of the steels you have listed in your original post would be excellent. The ZDP189 will maintain an edge longest but is probably the most brittle. The D2 will hold its edge longer than the 154CM.
 
Ya know... it's just a thought, but you might look at the Wilson Cop Tool. It's more of a fixed blade instead of a folder, but it rides IWB in a sheath. It's made of D2, has a serrated edge for cutting on the bottom, a PE U-shaped cut-out on top for cutting line, and a chisel tip that scrapes or pries. And it's under $100 on the 'Net.

If you still want a folder with a strong tip, look at tanto blades from Benchmade, Cold Steel, Buck. Hey... if you could find a Buck Strider with a tanto blade, that might work for what you want. I think it's an 882? Try New Graham Pharmacy or Grand Prairie Knives for the Buck Strider or mini-Strider. They're probably a little over $100 for the minis, but e-bay might have some for < $100.
 
therulebookman said:
First, I think I want to get a BM grip in D2 but cabelas is backordered and i'm impatient so I'm considering the 154CM version but I've read the tip is not very strong on 154CM blades? anyone had any experience with prying and/or screwdriving with 154CM blades?

-Dan
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154cm does not like any kind of lateral forces at all. most knives don't, but my benchmade 690 that I had to use for emergency prying snapped like glass..broke off about 3/16 of the tip.:mad: I should never have done that. I mainly use my Entrek for light prying now, yes I still do the same stupid emergency thing sometimes "being lazy":rolleyes: Somehow the tip on the Entrek rolls instead of breaking.
 
A folder of your choice in your favorite steel in your pocket and an Atwood Area 51 Keyton or any of Mr. Atwood's fine pry tools around you neck make for a great cut, screw and pry combo. Works for me! :)

Matador-
 
the 710 D2 is an awesome knife I just ordered a 2nd one. For what you are wanting I have to second the wilson cop tool. It will take damn near anything.
 
Of the choices you've mentioned, the ZDP Endura is probably your best bet. And as much as I love the axis lock, don't underestimate Spydies. The hole and the authoritative snap they make when they lock up is pretty addictive. For your budget, my suggestion would be a Leatherman Wave a Victorinox/SAK. They'll handle everything you can throw at them as long as it's not extreme. The reason I'd get a ZDP Endura over a Leatherman Wave or a SAK would be for the edge retention, SD purposes or the ergos for pure knife handling.
 
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