15V vs K390

15V has more strength than you would think, especially at its ~65rc hardness, thanx to Shawn's heat-treating prowess:


*Video credit to Shawn's YT channel.

I've torqued into G-10 with no real ill-effect regarding detrimental edge damage. I typically see catastrophic failure at the edge after such testing abuse.

K390 has been one of the rustiest steels that I've ever pocketed. Looking forward to possibly catching one of the upcoming 15V models in the pipeline to see how it fares in the pocket.

Overall, it looks as though 15V bridges the gap in overall performance between K390 and Maxamet. I've actually had better results with 15V than Maxamet, but that could be due to the ease of sharpening that Shawn's treatment of 15V offers.

Truly, an exceptional steel not to be missed. I'd take 15V over K390, at any opportunity.
 
elevator man said:
This is a hard one. Really If this is your delima, your outcomes going to be excellent either way. Right now I'm rotating between a 15v paramilitary2 on the weekends and a k390 delica as my work knife. Honestly I'd say if your budget allows, 15v is a great steel. But i wouldn't strain yourself financially just to get it with a fleet of k390 at your disposal. K390 is no slouch and I use my knives moderately and can't really tell a difference between them. I think 15v would win in a cardboard cutting contest but in day in day out they are very similar. Front end shaving sharpeness is about the same, that strops back easier with k390 (diamond strops). Both have a similar HRC and edge stability/strength. I've cut carpet on a recent floor job with both and have been impressed intentionally pushing the 15v dragging it across the subfloor to cut up the pad, after the carpet, it keeps on cutting. But that k390 on the delica hold it's own too. Both sharpen very well for me, easily deburring.

If you got the bucks, its money we'll spent. If not, don't sweat it, your k390s doing about the same thing. And I think these new 15v is a new lineup like maxamet or s110v. So not a sprint. No rush.
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Thanks. This kind of real world experience is what I wanted. Keep it coming folks!
 
I'd choose K390. I've got a delica, endura, stretch, and a police in K390 and find each easy to sharpen and hard to dull.

I scored a factory 2nd PM2 in 15V last summer and, although I really enjoy it, I find that my K390 edges seem to last longer. I know that all trustworthy data indicates that 15V should outshine K390, so I presume 2 factors are at play:

1. The PM2 came with a somewhat obtuse edge (atypical for Spyderco), which I gradually reprofiled as i sharpened it; and

2. My freehand sharpening skills may be lacking.

Regardless, both are great.
 
oldmanwilly said:
I'd choose K390. I've got a delica, endura, stretch, and a police in K390 and find each easy to sharpen and hard to dull.

I scored a factory 2nd PM2 in 15V last summer and, although I really enjoy it, I find that my K390 edges seem to last longer. I know that all trustworthy data indicates that 15V should outshine K390, so I presume 2 factors are at play:

1. The PM2 came with a somewhat obtuse edge (atypical for Spyderco), which I gradually reprofiled as i sharpened it; and

2. My freehand sharpening skills may be lacking.

Regardless, both are great.
Click to expand...
Edge geometry makes a big difference when comparing knives.

Same angle
Wa66rzl.png



Different angles
NXbybhL.png




"52100 out cuts Maxamet"


Hrmm
 
DeadboxHero said:
Edge geometry makes a big difference when comparing knives.

Same angle
Wa66rzl.png



Different angles
NXbybhL.png




"52100 out cuts Maxamet"


Hrmm
Click to expand...

That brings to mind someone who shall remain unnamed who did a lot of testing with rope...he didn't measure edge angle, but he did measure edge bevel thickness, and pretty much considered it a single variable comparison of steels, even though the thickness behind the edge varied a lot between the various knives. He even reground a few of the knives and retested them and, surprise surprise, saw significant improvement. He took me to task when I said a simpler steel could outperform a super steel, depending on geometry, and what you have just shown supports that belief.

I have always been a fan of thinner grinds and lower angles. I once sent a small Sebenza back to CR because it just wasn't performing as well as some of my other knives in the same steel. CR sent it back and said it was in Rc spec, and also told me that I was running the edge bevel at too low an angle (around 12 dps) and said that it needed to be run at a much steeper angle. That was just covering up for a poor HT that resulted in a low RC that couldn't support a low angle.
 
DeadboxHero said:
Edge geometry makes a big difference when comparing knives.

Same angle
Wa66rzl.png



Different angles
NXbybhL.png




"52100 out cuts Maxamet"


Hrmm
Click to expand...

If they were both sharpened to 10 degrees and I presume very thin bte, does that change the graph?
 
I've not felt any recent (10V, 15V, REX121) desire to step above Seki City K390. I feel like they have the best middle ground in not being a complete pain to sharpen and yet still offer brilliant edge holding. No chipping or other issues, it just works. I also love that K390 is a regular production steel instead of a limited run. Not sure what hard use unusual situation where anyone would need higher performance for an EDC than K390 offers.
 
honestly for me, I’d buy the knife I liked better.

If you like FRN and light knives, k390 is probably your ticket. Also tends to be in slightly cheaper options. Though the 15v manix LW is gunna be around $160ish.

Both are really close together in a lot of ways. Not exactly, but closer than they are far apart.

I’d buy the design i wanted more than quibbling over the steel. It’s not like you’re comparing O-1 and Rex-121 where your use is box opening.
 
In my use, for a typical EDC mix of cardboard/plastic/wood, my K390 Delica holds up better than my 15V PM3. However, in sisal rope, the 15V PM3 definitely lasts longer.

My S90V Native seems to outlast both the K390 Delica and 15V PM3 for my mix of EDC tasks.

CATRA uses a very abrasive medium, so a high V/Nb carbide content really shines in CATRA testing. But in other materials, toughness/edge stability can be more important. I have also had great results with Cruwear and XHP.
 
lambertiana said:
CATRA uses a very abrasive medium, so a high V/Nb carbide content really shines in CATRA testing. But in other materials, toughness/edge stability can be more important. I have also had great results with Cruwear and XHP.
Click to expand...
And toughness and edge stability are dependent in part on sharpening angle. 52100 is very tough until you narrow the sharpening angle so much that it becomes not so tough and is chippy. That was why I posed my question above to BBB (which I note he did not answer). On paper, things can be made to appear different than what actual use in hand seems to show.
 
on_the_edge said:
And toughness and edge stability are dependent in part on sharpening angle. 52100 is very tough until you narrow the sharpening angle so much that it becomes not so tough and is chippy. That was why I posed my question above to BBB (which I note he did not answer). On paper, things can be made to appear different than what actual use in hand seems to show.
Click to expand...

Yep. And I have learned how things work for my EDC with my preferred edge angle.
 
on_the_edge said:
(which I note he did not answer).
Click to expand...
Well, I feel like I was completely ignored with what I was highlighting with those graphs and feels like I am being misrepresented with the topic about cutting edge retention because I didn't layout edge performance basics 101 in a wall of text?

Yes, geometry has a massive, inverse relationship with cutting ability, cutting edge retention versus durability.

This is edge performance 101.

This is the very essence of why there is no one size fits all for edge geometry.

A common question that comes up.

"What angle for this steel bro?"

Its like asking what the best length is for a piece of string. It doesn't make any sense. It's whatever angle/length it needs to be.


With edge angles, everybody needs something different for their needs, preferences and uses etc.

What will work for some, will not work for everybody.

Pretty basic stuff.





As for the point I was trying to share with that graph above.


I was highlighting that it's difficult to compare steel if we are not ruling out geometry.




We often see people doing edge testing to rule out differences with steel yet not with the same edge angle which has a dramatic effect on edge retention and also durability.

That's the spirit of what I was attempting to share.

Cheers.
 
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