1917 Frontier Bowie

U

ursamajor

Joined
Oct 27, 2010
Messages
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It was Mike's thread here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1245217-Frontier-Bowie-vs-Hog

That got me wanting one of these badly. Although I always was interested, as I love big Bowies. Anyway this thing is HUGE. My 9 year old calls it a pirate sword. I took some photos for reference just to illustrate how big it really is.

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I took a photo of it sheathed, next to my San Mai III Trailmaster, and unsheathed next to the Trailmaster, and a Junglas. The 2nd picture took a couple of tries, as my cat photo bombed my first attempt.

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Anyway, I'd say that overall, the fit and finish is good, and the knife's quality exceeds it price point. The blueing is excellent. Mine was fairly sharp, but a few passes on a steel brought the edge right to that Cold Steel standard we expect. The grind is even, and overall I'd say the fit and finish is very good. No complaints. The handle seems comfortable, but being as I have just gotten it today, and have not had a chance to do any chopping with it, the jury is still out on the ergos. The sheath is damned impressive for a leather production sheath. Very nice looking, and the leather seems thick and supple. Definitely keeps with the rustic, western theme of the knife. One of the best leather sheaths I have seen included with a production knife. The stitching is even, and the dye is set well, with none rubbing off. The blued Steel furniture is nicely done as well.

So far, I am really liking this knife/"pirate sword"
 
Cool, thanks for the comments. This is one of those, I have no real use for but it would be fun to have, knives.
 
I got one myself when it first came out. Awesomely big, thick and very strong. I haven't used mine so far either. The handle does seem like it would be a bit uncomfortable for extended wood chopping. Although if you wore work gloves, then it might be okay.
 
I know that Cold Steel has their 1917 Frontier Bowie made to their specs by the Windlass Steelcrafts company in India. I also know that Windlass was/is a user of hand forged blade manufacturing. With the Frontier Bowie that I purchased for my collection, I have tried to find an internet answer on whether this Bowie is made by stock removal (grinding down from bar stock), or made by the Windlass hand forging method. Just a curiosity thing for me, as I love to learn as much as I can about the items within my collection. I find the 1917 Frontier Bowie to be a very impressive piece. I absolutely have no regrets in having added it to my stable... But would have certainly regretted not buying it ☺ If anyone knows for sure on the blade hand forging or milled from barstock thing, I would love to know.... And, thank you in advance ☺

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I don't have an an answer to the forging vs stock removal question, but I suspect it is made the same way the 1917 Cutlass is made. It is essentially a 1917 Cutlass that is shorter and without the full hand guard. There may be more information about how Windlass makes the cutlasses and sabers. I have some doubt they are hand forged.
 
Well, the Cold Steel 1917 Cutlass is obviously a sword, and this video explains sword making at the Windlass facilities in India (hand hammer forged)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVIevDkBVKg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

But, of course that does not mean that they can't or won't make it by stock removal methods, if that is what Cold Steel contracted them to do. Maybe someone knows definitively one way or the other on the 1917 Bowie.
If these Bowies are made using hand forging, that will indeed be pretty impressive. Very few knife makers in the US, or elsewhere, make anything like that today. And, I certainly imagine that the price added for hand forging is very high.
 
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I searched the Windlass Steelcrafts' American sales branch to see if they listed how their bowies are manufactured. The few I saw, based on antique patterns, were listed as being hand forged. So, unless Cold Steel specifically ordered their 1917 Frontier Bowies to be machined from barstock, it would seem a good guess that they too are hand forged. But, in any case, that's still a guess... Maybe I'll never know for sure.
 
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Great question, PocketKnifeJimmy, but I think that may be one of those taboo topics for CS. Too close to their business/trade secrets. Unless the CS moderator takes pity on us and finds out from Lynn Thompson himself, we'll likely never know for sure. What's your gut feeling from looking at the 1917 bowie? I'm not sure myself. I'll post again after checking it out more carefully.
 
My gut feeling is that they are hand forged... But I only base that guess on the fact that Windlass seems to hand forge all of their large bowies sold under their own name brand (as with their swords). I imagine by now it's the way that they know best, and Cold Steel knows this, and likely has them made the same way (while likely really stressing to Windlass the importance of quality as to fit within CS standards). Just my guess ☺

I do find it strange to think that Cold Steel would look at such information as being some sort of trade secret needing maximum protection. I mean, it is not telling us any manufacturing specific details. With Ontario knives we know they stamp/punch out or laser cut their blade blanks. The same goes for KaBar, Case, Buck, Queen, and GEC. Then we look at a tool maker like Estwing, and we know their products are forged steel. None of these companies are committing taboo by letting us know which method is used (they are not outing any specific details that may be unique within these methods that they may be using during their manufacturing process).
 
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My guess is forged. The machinery to stamp and grind steel is not cheap. If all their manufacturing outside of CS is forged, I doubt they are going to add a manufacturing method, and the costs that go with it, for a limited order of Cold Steel pieces. You aren't going to go to Pizza Hut, and be able order some Big Macs-even if you order 100k Big Macs.
 
ursamajor said:
My guess is forged. The machinery to stamp and grind steel is not cheap. If all their manufacturing outside of CS is forged, I doubt they are going to add a manufacturing method, and the costs that go with it, for a limited order of Cold Steel pieces. You aren't going to go to Pizza Hut, and be able order some Big Macs-even if you order 100k Big Macs.
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Yes, Sir... That sounds like very rational reasoning to believe that they are hand forged.

P.S. Not sure how many of you folks clicked onto the link I had added in an above post (showing a Windlass Steelcrafts marketing video). Well, anyhow, one thing that made me giggle, were the guys pounding away as they forged blades into their basic shapes. Why did I giggle?... Because throughout this video, which in no way do I doubt as being authentic in their basic forging processes, they made sure they all had hard hat and eye protection on. I am willing to bet those hard hats and goggles got tossed back in the closet when the filming was done. Those guys doing their forging, are very much like the people in Nepal doing the forging on Kukri knives. These guys are truly using old school methods, methods/traditions used by blacksmiths of old. Of course these rough forged blades then get sent to areas of Windlass that are a bit more modernized... But those forgings... Very old school!
 
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I checked out mine more carefully from end to end. I'm pretty sure that this blade was hand hammered. There are imperfections on the fuller on both sides that seem to be from hammering. I think the bluing may hide some of the imperfections. There's a 1 cm long section on the tang/handle fit longitudinally that seems to be an imperfect hammering spot. I don't think that would have happened if it was made from stock removal. As for the guard, I'm dead certain that part was hand hammered and shaped, as it definitely appears hand made.

As for the other bowies, knives, or swords made by Windlass, I have a handful of them, including the Qama, the 1880 bowie, the hunter's companion bowie, the coffin handled bowie, the Western boot knife. Those are definitely all hand forged. You can see numerous imperfections from hand hammering all over the blades. So if those were all forged, I don't see why the 1917 frontier would be any different. I do think the 1917 was made using much more care. It's pretty obvious that the overall quality of the 1917 is much higher and that significant time was spent on each one making sure that fit/finish was up to Cold Steel standards. I suppose there is a slim chance that the 1917 blade was made elsewhere by stock removal and then shipped to Windlass for finishing, so it's likely that we'll never know for sure. As pointed out in another post above, though, the 1917 bowie is most probably made using the same method as the 1917 cutlass, as they are so similar in appearance.

CS is pretty hush-hush about where some of their knives or swords are made, so it's not surprising that they don't say much about the 1917. Although if this knife were hand forged/hammered, I'd think it would be a pretty good selling point to advertise that fact. We all know how much a hand forged knife costs if made in USA. It's pretty awesome that a hand forged knife of this quality can be sold at this price point, even if it's made in India. I hope they never stop!

As for the Windlass video, PKJ, you're really observant! I watched that video before ordering my Windlass bowies but didn't even notice that. I'll have to check that out again. I agree, hard hats and goggles, considering what their real work conditions must be like ... pretty amusing! Just goes to show you that Windlass's management must be pretty smart.
 
GrReaper said:
As for the Windlass video, PKJ, you're really observant! I watched that video before ordering my Windlass bowies but didn't even notice that. I'll have to check that out again. I agree, hard hats and goggles, considering what their real work conditions must be like ... pretty amusing! Just goes to show you that Windlass's management must be pretty smart.
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Heh...I literally laughed out loud when I saw all those guys wearing identical white, spotless helmets. ;)
 
GrReaper said:
As for the other bowies, knives, or swords made by Windlass, I have a handful of them, including the Qama, the 1880 bowie, the hunter's companion bowie, the coffin handled bowie, the Western boot knife. Those are definitely all hand forged. You can see numerous imperfections from hand hammering all over the blades. So if those were all forged, I don't see why the 1917 frontier would be any different. I do think the 1917 was made using much more care.
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Yeah, I have several Windlass products(in fact, I just recently got that Western Boot Knife myself), and the fit and finish is definitely hit or miss.
 
DShiflet said:
Yeah, I have several Windlass products(in fact, I just recently got that Western Boot Knife myself), and the fit and finish is definitely hit or miss.
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I wouldn't doubt that Cold Steel has been a good contract for Windlass in recent years, and highly likely that they will try to apply careful attention in doing their best to meet CS standards. A win win situation for Windlass, Cold Steel, and us CS customers 😉

Oh, and btw... I agree that if indeed these Bowies are made using hand forging, which I believe they are, Cold Steel could use that as a great selling point. I mean, in a world with stamped out and cast products, (which also has it's pro' and con's), what a great way to help in the Cold Steel 1917 Frontier Bowie marketing. It's a very old school looking Bowie, and it being produced closely resembling old school production methods... what a great selling point (imo) ☺ As mentioned above by you guys, hand forging is almost unheard of anymore. Maybe if it were custom made... But it would be very expensive. I can't imagine what the price of this Bowie would be if done that way and being made here in the USA.
 
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Here is a picture of the paperwork that came along with my 1917 Frontier Bowie. The test is identical to what is shown in that video link above showing this testing done by Windlass Steelcrafts. I can see how the swords may pass such testing in the flexing catagory, but cringe to think they'd do this to these shorter Bowie knives (they are big bowies as far as bowies go... But that flex test... Ouch!).

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I don't believe these are as mass produced as we may think. I mean, yes, maybe mass produced in the sense that quite a few are being made, and each with the same general specs as the one before and after it, but I doubt these are churned out in any way as what we normally expect mass produced items to be done.
 
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That British Proof Test sheet is the one they use for swords. I'm pretty sure they'd skip Step 5 and 6 for a knife or they'd use a specification other than 5" of flex. I wouldn't be surprised if they flexed the cutlass less than the saber as well. Apparently they don't print a different sheet for the knife, but as I wrote before, I'm pretty sure the 1917 Frontier Bowie is the same steel and same process they use to make the 1917 Cutlass, 1917 Hybrid Cutlass, and the 1917 Saber among others.

They do flex knives in their demo videos produced in the US. In those cases they are flexing them to extremes to show their spring temper, toughness and resistance to breakage. I am pretty sure they ruin them as they flex way beyond the point of plastic deformation and the knives would take a "set." Here's one where they flex a different Bowie at about 5:20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDiU6_v_zcw
 
That Natchez Bowie is a beauty... although I still prefer the nostalgic appearance and rustic charms of the 1917 Bowie. It's awesome that Cold Steel covers so many styles to fit so many different likes that people may have. On one side of things, they may have certain knives made in places like Taiwan, where they may have more advanced technology factories... These factories offering a CS product that is a bit more refined in appearance, but also showing it's modern pedigree. Then they have other knives made in places like India, where much of the manufacturing methods still require more hands on manual labor, which adds that rustic charm that can't be faked by modern machinery. I like both methods, and my collection has representations of both approaches... But I do have a special place for items having more hands on craftsmanship. As an example, though I have a few modern made Swiss Army pocket knives in my collection (which have minimal hands on work involved in making them), It's my pocket knives from companies like GEC, the old Camillus, Queen, Utica, and others, that really please my owning them the most. Yes, those Swiss Army knives are much more perfectly consistent from one specimen to the next, but I find it so cool to handle items where the manufacturing environment to make the product had a bunch of hands on participation. Maybe it's the fact that next month I'll be turning half a century old, and that I may have an appreciation for hands on craftsmanship that newer generation people may have been made immune to. I mean, as more and more gets done without hands on work, the more people get used to that idea. And for function alone, it really matters not whether a product is mostly hand made or machine/computer made... But just for my pure enjoyment in ownership of my items within my 'Man Gadget Collection', I require as much representation of hand craftsmanship as possible... It soothes my soul, lol! ☺ Again, it is nice to see Cold Steel cover both bases on this ☺

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There was something I forgot to mention about the Cold Steel 1917 Bowie that I feel sets it apart from the rest of the CS Bowie stable. While the Frontier Bowie is obviously made of thick 1/4" 1055 mid carbon steel, being thick for added overall strength is not exclusive at CS. What is unique, and I totally believe gives the Frontier Bowie a welcomed added feature, is the one piece Rosewood handle. Three screws on both sides hold this wood to a decently thick full length tang. No, the tang is not full girth of the grip, but definitely full length. I find it cool that they did not go with a rat tang, cable tang, or full girth tang, but instead with this thick full length tang using a one piece wood handle. It is very reminiscent of the way one piece grip handles were/are made to be installed on old school single action Colt revolvers.
If for some reason this handle is ever damaged, having a replacement handle installed would not be any more difficult than removing and reinstalling six screws. This handle method also allows handy and creative individuals to easily make custom handles, while still having the option of reinstalling the original grip at any time. I myself do not plan on any handle change, since my purpose is collecting "gadgets" in original configuration. But, I would not shy away from buying a second specimen and adding a customized appearing handle grip if outside vendor(s) start offering them. With the other CS Bowies, changing or replacing the grip handle is almost impossible for the average Joe, in most cases actually needing destruction of the factory handle for it's removal... That is certainly not an easy task for a new replacement on some models. There are Pros and Cons of the different CS Bowie offerings... But, when it comes to the handle, the Frontier's method of iinstallation is the better method (imo) ☺

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I wish I could take credit for the above photo, which I found while doing a Google search on the Cold Steel Frontier Bowie knife. Anyhow, I totally love this picture! It seems so fitting to the style and the knife's designated model name "Frontier Bowie". I may have to blow this pic up in size and frame it... I find it that cool 😎
 
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