.....

Unfortunately, ultrahighstrengh maraging steels (400, 450 grades) are not available now. And, the same situation in Russia. We have order custom production. But, from another hand, we can evaluate different grades (and, also, different technologies) as materials for knifemaking.
 
i heard erasteel will make any custom steel (powder i assume) as long as you order 50kilos, but for high alloyed steels it will still be very expensive i think. dont know if they still offer this service. im looking forward to see the results of your tests alan, marageing steels could be very useful for swords.
 
penguin_2000 said:
Hmm... this should probably be put asked in the Shop Talk forum. I'd be interested in hearing it from a knifemaker who's tried it.
As for why they're used for fencing blades... they are stronger (from my experience) and they also break cleanly instead of splintering into sharp edges. I'm not sure WHY it does that, but thats the main reason its used for modern sport fencing.
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Here is a quote from Wikipedia - I am also including the link to the entire entry.

The thought that such blades break flat - thus in the words of one equipment catalogue, "doing your opponent a great favor" - is actually a fencing urban legend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maraging_steel

I used them for fencing as well. They have the added advantage of being quite rust resistant which counts for something since they often get carried around in a bag with sweaty clothes.
 
While searching for the "Perfect" knife steel in the 1980's I spoke with the boys at Vasco and was told that they had recently developed some new maraging steels. Based on their recommendations I bought enough Vasco Max C350 to make 4 knives. . . I made 2 test knives and one finished blade for a collector out of Mt. Kisco, New York. I was so "unimpressed" with its performance that I never used it again and warned the collector that it may not be the best steel for large blades intended for hard use.

It's been over 20 years since I used it, but I remember C350 having a boat load of cobalt in it and, if I remember correctly, I had to "bake" it at approx. 900 degrees for 9 hours. The blades came out at 60 Rc but had little impact strength on hard objects. Years later, a knifemaker from Tennesse (I believe that his first name was "Red") was written up in one of the "Knives Annual" books (perhaps Knives 1989 or 1990?) for having "discovered" it.

It did very well on rope cutting and rust resistance but would take permanent sets very easily when bent and the edge would flatten dramatically when impacting knots or bone.

I still have a piece of it somewhere in my original shop.

Unusual stuff, and perhaps a very good choice for a folder or dive knife.

Of course everything I posted here is subject to my memory, which is a bit cloudy from the beer-soaked '80's!!!!:eek: :D

Hope this helps,

Jerry
 
Alan-B said:
...cutting of 1" manila rope until blade can smootly cut newspaper.
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How are you cutting the rope (push the blade through it straight down, or pull the blade on a slice across the rope), and how are you cutting the newspaper (push the blade straight into it, or cut it on a angle on a draw)?

...degradationof cutting edge via carbides microcheaping
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What edge angles and edge finishes are being used? Do you know how the other blades were heat treated?

-Cliff
 
Regarding prices:
I can bue Erasteel powder steels at 35-37 EUR/Kg (custom size strip, 100 kg order per grade/size, 60 days lead time, 60% prepayment). Now i order my custom steels around of USD 70/Kg, 1 kg per grade (also, available 5, 10, 50 Kgs ingots), 2 weeks lead time.
We cut rope mainly on "push cut" manner w. small blade offset. We test sharpness by push cut of newspaper (along and across paper fibres).

Results of our tests:

1. Both blases has been resharpened on 180 grit abrasive belt and ligthtly polished. 1/2 angle is around of 20-22. Initial sharpness - very good, may be best, that i seen.
2. Edge holding ability - 30 rope cuts for cutting newspaper across fibres and 70 rope cuts for cutting newspater along fibres.
3. Impact test - (knocking on soft iron surface) - not good, cutting edge (very thin: 0.1-0.2 mm) was clipping w/o any plastic deformation.

Summary - goog, but w/o any exclusivity. May be, heat threament was not optimal. Both blades was requenched and now they are in aging process. Next results will come on these days.
 
How was the newspaper push cut, how far from the point where it was held was the blade? Was the cut made at 90 degrees? How high a grit was the final edge bevel? Interesting note about the fibre orientation. Have you seen other blades of similar edge profile take the iron impacts without damage or lesser damage?

-Cliff
 
Regarding newspaper - for initial cut we use angle 10-15 degree between cutting edgee and fible orientation (if we cut newspaper alond fibres) and 75-80 degree, if we cut newspaper across fibres. We make initial cut from 4 to 7 cm from poinf of handle.
Blades from 52100 (62 HRc) w. same geomerty demonstrate better impact tougness of cutting edge. May be, main reason for that - unproper heat treatment of maraging steel - may be, we wasn't complitely dissolve sigma-phase during heating for forging. This weekend we will test newly theated blades.
 
Interesting results, I have not found the same result in regards to rope cutting and the higher alloy blades at those angles. I have found problems when they are sharpened low, which Alvin Johnson has noted on rec.knives many years ago in regards to 1095 vs ATS-34, but it sets in usually at much more acute angles, ten degrees per side and under.



-Cliff
 
We tested newly treated blades - practically the same results (little bit better).
We ordered production of 3 another grades - new test results will come 20-30 days later.
 
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