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1980-81-82 110 Transition Issues--Joe H?
- Thread starter BG42EDGE
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BG42EDGE
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That's real helpful and I appreciate the info.
Did those pivot holes stay the same on the 425M?
Did Buck at any time actually produce both 425M and 440C 110 blades at the same time or was there an absolute cutoff of 440C production and a total new beginning with 425M production?
If there was an absolute cutoff, was that for all Buck knife production as well as 110s?
Is it at all possible or even likely that someone would have taken a Two-Dot blade, made the pivot hole larger and added a third dot at that time.......or are such changes impossible after a blade has been heat treated?
I ask this because of the blades we see with that disproportionately larger and slightly out of whack last dot on the right.
Again, thanks for your help. I know some of these questions are odd, but it's just things that I'm really curious about.
Did those pivot holes stay the same on the 425M?
Did Buck at any time actually produce both 425M and 440C 110 blades at the same time or was there an absolute cutoff of 440C production and a total new beginning with 425M production?
If there was an absolute cutoff, was that for all Buck knife production as well as 110s?
Is it at all possible or even likely that someone would have taken a Two-Dot blade, made the pivot hole larger and added a third dot at that time.......or are such changes impossible after a blade has been heat treated?
I ask this because of the blades we see with that disproportionately larger and slightly out of whack last dot on the right.
Again, thanks for your help. I know some of these questions are odd, but it's just things that I'm really curious about.
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The set up for milling nail nicks probably has a process drawing with acceptible variations specified. Each set up would probably have to be approved by Quality Control to meet those specifications. The variation you are looking for probably happens in hand finishing the blade after heat treat.
BG42EDGE
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Thanks, Richard.
So individual workers might have a preferred set up or setting that would result in them turning out nail nicks unique enough to be picked out from those of other workers?
Or is it likely that the differences in nail nicks would be totally random?
Is there a source of information where I could learn how many workers actually did the machining work on the blades and if they only did one specific part of the process or did they switch off and do different parts? Were one or just a few guys stuck with doing all the nail nicks?
I'm interested in a source that could give me an idea of how the 1980 line was set up and how many workers were involved.
So individual workers might have a preferred set up or setting that would result in them turning out nail nicks unique enough to be picked out from those of other workers?
Or is it likely that the differences in nail nicks would be totally random?
Is there a source of information where I could learn how many workers actually did the machining work on the blades and if they only did one specific part of the process or did they switch off and do different parts? Were one or just a few guys stuck with doing all the nail nicks?
I'm interested in a source that could give me an idea of how the 1980 line was set up and how many workers were involved.
BG42EDGE
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Also for Richard, if you know....
Did Buck at any time actually produce both 425M and 440C 110 blades at the same time or was there an absolute cutoff of 440C production and a total new beginning with 425M production?
If there was an absolute cutoff, was that for all Buck knife production as well as 110s?
Did Buck at any time actually produce both 425M and 440C 110 blades at the same time or was there an absolute cutoff of 440C production and a total new beginning with 425M production?
If there was an absolute cutoff, was that for all Buck knife production as well as 110s?
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- 8,151
OMG BG... are we becoming anal on details???!!!
were you are once i was .. trying to find out all the details
if you have not finished searching through my past postings
look for the one on the
Final Word on Buck Knives Book
letter by santa c..
i got very frustrated and gave up on trying to find good consistent data
as the "bible" of buck was constantly in revision..
and if i propose some thing diff well many did not agree
i postulated a inverted 3 liner existed and was told by some no way..
then they showed up for sale ..
frank had data that no one else bothered to record
and some seemed to disagree with him
he shared it with some and
wow the "final word" was revised!
now he seems to be yours and some one else's best buddy..
so you will likely get copies of it or at least what he has left
of the data and perhaps a knife as some have gotten
oh that's right you did ask for what he had left already!
some day you may be able to jest settel down and
enjoy the knives as i come to do ..
abet i did because i found it so hard to find any data and
many disagreed with my thoughts of things
that i discovered ...
Gee wizzing...it really did not mater to my collecting or my collection..
may you enjoy your journey grasshopper ...
were you are once i was .. trying to find out all the details
if you have not finished searching through my past postings
look for the one on the
Final Word on Buck Knives Book
letter by santa c..
i got very frustrated and gave up on trying to find good consistent data
as the "bible" of buck was constantly in revision..
and if i propose some thing diff well many did not agree
i postulated a inverted 3 liner existed and was told by some no way..
then they showed up for sale ..
frank had data that no one else bothered to record
and some seemed to disagree with him
he shared it with some and
wow the "final word" was revised!
now he seems to be yours and some one else's best buddy..
so you will likely get copies of it or at least what he has left
of the data and perhaps a knife as some have gotten
oh that's right you did ask for what he had left already!
some day you may be able to jest settel down and
enjoy the knives as i come to do ..
abet i did because i found it so hard to find any data and
many disagreed with my thoughts of things
that i discovered ...
Gee wizzing...it really did not mater to my collecting or my collection..
may you enjoy your journey grasshopper ...
BG42EDGE
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- Nov 6, 2009
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I'm here to increase my knowledge......not get free knives.
When free knives are offered I always say if they want to send me one......send it instead to one of our boys or girls in Iraq or Afghanistan.
I have never varied from that statement and never will.
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yup he is a friend .. has been so for a long time
many ( well most) times we agree
but a few we dont but they are unimportant any way
many times he got me to settle down when i was aggravated
or depressed by the wife's health going down hill
many talks to one and two am or tell the bat died in the phone
which provided an wonder full breaks in my life..
enjoy his company ... i do ...
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yes frank you are right and yes i have them still and all the "data and samples" are
put up with moisture absorbent..in air tight buckets..
along with a lot of other stuff for long term storage
as i said i lost interest in doing the 110 article and getting hard data
as so many times many want to argue with it
note my tag line..i feel to many are to dang vocal about it
4 now i jest look at my knives and try to remember what i do have so i dont buy duplicates.
some day i might dig it out and sort it all out and pass it on..or not
but that wont be for a long time ..
my wife is taking more and more of my time
esp knife time ... of late i dont even take joy in messing with them..
i may not make it to Atlanta even ....
life luck hate love fair and alota other 4 letter words truly are only transient meanings or feelings ...
put up with moisture absorbent..in air tight buckets..
along with a lot of other stuff for long term storage
as i said i lost interest in doing the 110 article and getting hard data
as so many times many want to argue with it
note my tag line..i feel to many are to dang vocal about it
4 now i jest look at my knives and try to remember what i do have so i dont buy duplicates.
some day i might dig it out and sort it all out and pass it on..or not
but that wont be for a long time ..
my wife is taking more and more of my time
esp knife time ... of late i dont even take joy in messing with them..
i may not make it to Atlanta even ....
life luck hate love fair and alota other 4 letter words truly are only transient meanings or feelings ...
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- Aug 24, 1999
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- 3,135
Wow!!! Where do you get all those questions? And they are all very pertinant to the discussion of 110's. I dont have the time right now to give them the research they need, and I doubt I will be able to find answers to all of them anyways, but I will save this thread for a later date.
Here are a few tidbits that I hope will help at least a little.
When I first came to work for Buck in Jan. 1985 they were using a stamp/nail notch carosel type of machine. The blades were loaded in and were first stamped, then the nail notch was milled in.
Shortly after 1985, sorry to be so vague, they tossed that machine. The nail notch was still milled in, with a locating fixture, but the exact set up of that fixture could vary some and I would imagine, these nothces might look diferent from those done on the carosel. The specs on the nail notch were somewhat loose since it did not matter a lot. Some things, such as the distance between the top of the blade and the top of the notch were more critical.
Is it possible that there are 3 dot 110 blades made of 425mod? My best "guess" says it could be possible.
That would mean that the first of the new 425mod blades came through and they did not have the new 4 dot stamps yet, or, they forgot to change the stamps from the 3 dot to 4 dot on the first batch or batches of 425mod.
My next step is to take apart a bunch of 3 and 4 dot 110's and examine the blades to see if there is a definitive way to tell a 440c blade from a 425mod blade. My head is spinning!
Here are a few tidbits that I hope will help at least a little.
When I first came to work for Buck in Jan. 1985 they were using a stamp/nail notch carosel type of machine. The blades were loaded in and were first stamped, then the nail notch was milled in.
Shortly after 1985, sorry to be so vague, they tossed that machine. The nail notch was still milled in, with a locating fixture, but the exact set up of that fixture could vary some and I would imagine, these nothces might look diferent from those done on the carosel. The specs on the nail notch were somewhat loose since it did not matter a lot. Some things, such as the distance between the top of the blade and the top of the notch were more critical.
Is it possible that there are 3 dot 110 blades made of 425mod? My best "guess" says it could be possible.
That would mean that the first of the new 425mod blades came through and they did not have the new 4 dot stamps yet, or, they forgot to change the stamps from the 3 dot to 4 dot on the first batch or batches of 425mod.
My next step is to take apart a bunch of 3 and 4 dot 110's and examine the blades to see if there is a definitive way to tell a 440c blade from a 425mod blade. My head is spinning!
BG42EDGE
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Thanks, Joe......I appreciate it. Yes, it sounds like nail nicks would have seen a change about the same time the date symbol stamps started.
So what is the post carousel system for nail notches? Faster and more automated, I suppose.
Do you know when the carousel first came into use and how they did the nail nicks prior to the carousel?
The craziest thing about the nail notches is.......the 110 doesn't need one in the first place.
What could have caused them to make it with a nail notch in the first place--looks? Tradition?
Certainly not function, because I've never used the nail nick......just pinch thumb and forefinger together and open it up.
Wonder how much money could have been saved over the years by eliminating that process?
So what is the post carousel system for nail notches? Faster and more automated, I suppose.
Do you know when the carousel first came into use and how they did the nail nicks prior to the carousel?
The craziest thing about the nail notches is.......the 110 doesn't need one in the first place.
What could have caused them to make it with a nail notch in the first place--looks? Tradition?
Certainly not function, because I've never used the nail nick......just pinch thumb and forefinger together and open it up.
Wonder how much money could have been saved over the years by eliminating that process?
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- 8,151
BG42 if you want to know how a Buck Knife is made
BUY the DVD for gods sake !!!!!!
it will answer a lot of your questions..
and may generate more...
joe the first 3 dot blades that appeared in the
111 classic had the "full hollow grind "
that appeared on the 110 with 425
i have wandered if these were the first of the 425 M
but feared to suggest that ...
so is this possable or
is it the only 3 dot 440C to have the full hollow grind ?
as has been brought to light that there were NO hard and fast rules
any thing is possible to have come from Buck for a lot of years
as Joe said once
you have to know enough to judge the "buckness" of one..
BUY the DVD for gods sake !!!!!!
it will answer a lot of your questions..
and may generate more...
joe the first 3 dot blades that appeared in the
111 classic had the "full hollow grind "
that appeared on the 110 with 425
i have wandered if these were the first of the 425 M
but feared to suggest that ...
so is this possable or
is it the only 3 dot 440C to have the full hollow grind ?
as has been brought to light that there were NO hard and fast rules
any thing is possible to have come from Buck for a lot of years
as Joe said once
you have to know enough to judge the "buckness" of one..