1st attempt at a knife, D2

noseoil

noseoil

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Apr 24, 2013
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I'm going to make a knife, for the first time. It's a simple design of a fixed blade with an overall length of about 9", 1/8" thick stock X 1.5" wide, FFG. I'm having a local water jet machinist do the initial cutting for the shape from my pattern, but I do have a question or two at this point as I'm getting started.

1 - I've looked at shaping the blade for heat-treat & am wondering about a HT facility (not a local shop I will work with) that's reputable, professional, reasonable & does a good job on D2 specifically.

2 - Is there a target hardness I should go with (60-ish) & should I tell them a number, or just do their thing with the usual treatment process?

3 - Is a cryo treatment recommended? I've seen that the steel from heat treat can have austenite inclusions, which can affect the blade in localized areas and create bad spots & odd things in general. For the extra few dollars is it worth the cost & recommended as a SOP step?

I'll be posting to the thread from time to time as I make progress with some pictures, hopefully it'll be more interesting than watching paint dry. I hope to have a good user-blade that's sharp, durable & nicely finished when it's all said & done.

Here's an Enzo in D2 I did for practice. Just playing with the grips to see how things go together (Ebony & Purple Heart). Thanks for looking, tim

Oil2_zps0u9spkwh.jpg
 
Give Peter's Heat Treat a call. They'll be able to answer any questions you have.

Generally, you will request hardness target. Peter's generally includes a cryo treatment with any steels that would benefit from it, D2 included.
 
Most of the supply houses offer HT, I use Paul Bos at Buck knives. I prefer to get Cryo on my D2 and other air hardening steels but its not necessary

When I use D2 I ask for an RC of 59-61 for my Culinary knives.
 
Thanks for the heads-up on Peters, sounds good to me.

Here's a shot of the roughed-in blade now. It was cut at a local shop, but they made a couple of mistakes, so didn't charge me for the water jet work. Fine with me, as this is just a beginner's project anyway. There's some distal taper, but I don't want to make the point any finer than it is already. I've already made a few mistakes. The blade should have been about 1mm thick at the edge now for heat treat, but it ended up at about 0.020" due to my lack of grinding skills. Will this be a problem during the heat treat? Should I thicken it up more before sending it off or will it be OK the way it is?

As for the shape, it's basically a mule type of pattern which was stretched out to 9", but will end up at about 8 3/4" when it's finished. I still have a long way to go, but the initial shaping is close now & I have to fine tune a couple of things. Will drill the holes for the scales & keep grinding away. Just have a 1" X 30" belt & some Home Delay belts to work with, so it takes a while. Started at 50 & working up.

Shape2_zpsk3oeexq8.jpg
 
Spoke with Brad this morning at Peter's. Target hardness is going to be 60 for what I'm doing. The edge for heat treat can be down to .020" for D2, which is good considering what I did to the blank so far. Sounds like they really know what they're doing. Thanks for the recommendation.
 
Drill all of your holes before you ship it out for HT. Otherwise you will need Carbide Drill bits to get through it.
 
Saw this thread but didn't noticed noseoil until tonight... Hey Bud!

Nice looking first blade, Tim!

I can do a standard high austenite temperature ht (w/o cryo, because out of LN2) it for you - aim for ~61rc. I plan to refill my dewar in 3-4 weeks, after that cryo would be included. With cryo, I can bump hardness to 62-63rc. Alternatively, I can use BCMW ht to 62rc (w/o cryo) - yield good strength & toughness but might divot warp if grind is bumpy. I've quite a few bars of D2 in various thickness. I might even make a backup D2 blade to ht along with your blade. Send both to you.

Don't chop with a std ht D2 blade due to low toughness, unless edge geometry is substantial. Cruwear/zwear/pd1/3v would be a better steel for chopping.

==Luong
 
Hi Luong, so nice to hear from you! I'm thinking I don't really need to go over 60 on this blade, since it isn't a chopper & I didn't design it to have a very heavy profile as far as the thickness is concerned. It's going to be more of a slicer than a chopper with this design. The point on this one is really too fine now for a high hardness and may still break during use. Live and learn, right?

I'm making a second blade which will be a bit more robust & thicker in general (unless I make more mistakes on the grinder), so I might want to go up to 61 for that one, but I don't really want to go above this number due to toughness with the D2. At this point, and since they are both going to be a first attempt at blade making, I'm wanting to go with a bit more conservative approach to the heat treat, profile & intended utility. I'm hoping they work well, but since this is all new to me, we'll just have to wait & see what happens.

I'll write more to you when I get closer to the heat treat. tim

Here's the blank so far after last night & a bit more work.....

Shape3_zpsrpenlfs4.jpg
 
Nice work so far. There are a few issues that can be dealt with on this and the next knives.


First - One thing I see repeatedly is that new makers all seem to see a need for the blade spine to ramp up or dip down from the handle. Continuing the handle line onto the blade spine as a continuous curve both looks and feels better.

Second - Most new makers extend the heel (the little tit of steel past the choil) down below the edge. This not only looks odd, but will impede cutting towards the back part of the blade. The heel should be even with the edge.


Third - The choil should form a perfect semi-circle that is bisected by the plunge. It is best not to add the choil until the blade is ready for HT ( or even after HT). It should no be in front of the plunge. This isn't a huge issue, but looks better when done perfectly.
 
Consider TruGrit for heat treat, Jeff Mutz their knifemaker does great work and never takes a torch to your blade to straighten it like some heat treaters do

Cryo on D2 really increases its wear Resistance significantly
 
Nice for your first!

Also to piggyback on Stacys comment. You really want to avoid taking your plunge all the way up through the top of the blade and "breaking" the spine.

2TDOjaf.jpg


Note that even on this full grind there is a little tiny bit left at the top.

-edit to add this is not a knife of mine.
 
OK guys, duly noted & I appreciate your input on this stuff. Let's see how the second one turns out. This one is nearly ready for the HT now. I've taken it to a worn 120 belt, but is this enough for the D2 at about a 60 hardness, or should I go to a finer grit before sending it in? Not sure how much clean-up to expect to make it look right after the HT. The tip is most likely too fine on this one for hard work, as I think it my just break off once it's finished, but I'll have to see. I didn't want a "clunky" design & something too hefty, but I may have gone too far this time.

Next one will incorporate a few of your (collective) ideas & hopefully turn out a little better. At this point, I had 2 blanks cut with the water jet at the machinist's, so the second one will look a lot like this one as far as the shape & design is concerned. I'll thicken up the point a bit & try to do a better job with the grinder, but it's rewarding to see it taking shape from a solid hunk of steel.

Here's the way it looks now. I'm pleased with what I have so far, given that it's a first attempt & I've made some mistakes along the way. Always room for improvement...

Shape7s_zps53jzgnyh.jpg
 
The second blank is doing better, but I've still managed to screw up the grinding a bit. The first was completely free-handed & shows the results. This second one was done with a block cut at 4 degrees, so it's a bit better, but I'm still making my mistakes (school of hard knocks, as usual). I'm leaving more meat behind on this second one, so it's more of a general user/hard use knife & should stand up to more general punishment. It's going to be thicker behind the edge than the first one at .020". This second one will be closer to .030" behind the edge. Both will be sharpened at 19 degrees per side to keep the cutting edge & try to minimize any micro-chipping.

The first one will most likely end up as the general purpose "galley knife" in my teardrop camper. It should be up to the work as a kitchen knife and will be a good slicer with its finer blade.

Rough-2_zpslhilpj6b.jpg


P.S. Here's a link to the "other" stuff I've been working on over the last 2 years.
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=60248
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Nice work so far. There are a few issues that can be dealt with on this and the next knives.


First - One thing I see repeatedly is that new makers all seem to see a need for the blade spine to ramp up or dip down from the handle. Continuing the handle line onto the blade spine as a continuous curve both looks and feels better.

Second - Most new makers extend the heel (the little tit of steel past the choil) down below the edge. This not only looks odd, but will impede cutting towards the back part of the blade. The heel should be even with the edge.


Third - The choil should form a perfect semi-circle that is bisected by the plunge. It is best not to add the choil until the blade is ready for HT ( or even after HT). It should no be in front of the plunge. This isn't a huge issue, but looks better when done perfectly.
Click to expand...

On No 2 Stacy, that depends on the knife usage, I make a Paring/Petty that I live a rest for the thumb just behind the heel so you can rest your thumb when working the knife towards you and it can work as a blade brake. I've put them on hunters too once I explain its function to potential buyers.
 
noseoil said:
The second blank is doing better, but I've still managed to screw up the grinding a bit. The first was completely free-handed & shows the results. This second one was done with a block cut at 4 degrees, so it's a bit better, but I'm still making my mistakes (school of hard knocks, as usual). I'm leaving more meat behind on this second one, so it's more of a general user/hard use knife & should stand up to more general punishment. It's going to be thicker behind the edge than the first one at .020". This second one will be closer to .030" behind the edge. Both will be sharpened at 19 degrees per side to keep the cutting edge & try to minimize any micro-chipping.

The first one will most likely end up as the general purpose "galley knife" in my teardrop camper. It should be up to the work as a kitchen knife and will be a good slicer with its finer blade.

Rough-2_zpslhilpj6b.jpg


P.S. Here's a link to the "other" stuff I've been working on over the last 2 years.
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=60248
Click to expand...



You are right handed, to learn how to grind free hand,
I suggest you do your left hand first then match your right hand. Jigs have their place, Learning how to do it free hand will open up many doors of design for you. Then once you have a pattern that works/sells, built jigs for that pattern to decrease your time per piece.:)
 
Just got the blades back from Peter's Heat Treat. No trouble with the processing & they each have 3 little pings on the handle area. Asked for a target of 60 & got them back with 59-60, so I'm happy.

Man, this D2 is some hard stuff to profile! I'm using diamonds by hand to set the initial bevels, but it's taking a while since I don't have anything nearly coarse enough to take the stock down very fast. After a "few" hours last night, I have a working edge on the first one. It's just the .015 BTE blade & it took forever. I'm going to use something a bit more aggressive for the .030" blade, since it's twice as thick. I could have waited to do the edge, but I wanted to see how hard it ended up. In a word, PLENTY!

A couple of thoughts on my first attempt at knife making:

The D2 is really nice steel to work with. I like the forgiving nature it has during HT. I was a bit worried about running the blade down to .015" prior to HT, but the stability is there and there was no "bacon" at the edge when it came back, so it worked out well enough.

This stuff is a real booger to take down after HT. It's unbelievably hard at the edge. I need to be better at using a more aggressive approach during the early steps & have better abrasives & technique throughout the entire process.

I'm still pondering a finish & am leaning towards a satin finish to hide scratches with something like scotch brite. Need to stock up on some paper now & make a finishing block to start the sanding on the blades.

Pictures will follow when I have something to show.
 
Here's the scale material, some purple heart with SS pins. Need to do some finishing of the blade first, clean things up & then do the shaping for the grip. It should be fairly comfortable once the grip is refined & curved. No epoxy or finishing for a while yet.

PH1_zpsbzbxw6v7.jpg


Hardly an original design, it's really just a large version of a Mule, with the thicker blade material & a similarly shaped blade. I've elongated the taper to the tip & made the distal taper fairly thin out to the point. I did a bit more on the edge this evening & the D2 really takes a screaming sharp edge, once the bevels are set and trued up. I'm just running it with a 19 degree-per-side micro bevel at the apex & with the bevel set at about 14 degrees. The angle of the blade is about 6 degrees with the FFG I'm using, so it's a decent slicer. Just a medium grit diamond finish, since I want some tooth for cutting with the large carbide structure available. It slices napkin paper easily now.

Distal_zpskcn5utzp.jpg


Still a long way to go on my technique, but it's lots of fun to be working on it. The second one should be a little better than the first, but I'm going to finish this one, before going any further on the second one.

Planning stages are on now for a 1/4" X 18" LOA 5160 blade at about 58.....
 
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