1st knife: Which steel?

N

nemesis27

Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
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Hey fellas, I hope I have this in the right place, if not I'm sorry.

I was settled on using CPM 3V for my 1st homemade as it performs as I desire, however I cant seem to find it for sale in my desired thickness (1/4") -checked Admiral, Flatground, Jantz. So I've been looking at L-6, O1 and 5160. I'm getting the feeling that either of these steels will do what I want and maybe I'm making this harder than it needs to be but I would like to find which one of these will offer the best edge retention with the least amount of chipping/tearing should I accidentally hit something I'm not suppose to. Superior balance.

With the steels mentioned at the desired thickness, should my question lean more towards which offers more edge retention vs the toughness and strength? Of course if you can find me 3v in 1/4" and know someone that's pretty savvy at HT'ing it then I would like to go that route.

Let me know whatcha think :)
 
1/4 inch is way to thick for your first knife. How big of knife do you want to make? Unless it is going to be about a 10-12 blade then you would be better suited with .200 or smaller. This also goes a long way to improving balance, a 1/4 inch blade is hard to balance without making a knife that is super heavy aka sharpened prybar.

I get my 3v from http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/bladesteel.htm#BS-CPM3V

Let me know what kind of knife you have in mind and I will give you some advice.

For a first knife though I would go with 1080 around .140 and about 9" long drop point hunter. It is a good way to learn the basics, drills and grinds easy. Not to hard to heat treat either :)

1080 if heat treated to spec can have amazing performance, rivaling that of 52100.
 
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Hey, thanks alot for the link man and the suggestions! :thumbup: :thumbup: I've already got both knives drawn out and finalized. Made one to rival my Last Chance that I recently ordered ;it's at 5.5" x 1.58" x .25" with an overall of 10" drop point w/a very slight curved belly, and the chopper at 10" x 2" x .25 with an overall of 16" drop point with a slight recurve. I could use a .200 for the camp knife though.

As for the HT, I was thinking of asking Horton, Krein or Peters depending on what steel I chose but am very open to any others per experience or good words. As for the 1/4" on my first knife(s) I hear ya and totally understand what your saying, and respect that. I'm kind of a Horton knut if that means anything on the sharpened pry bars haha -yes I fall into that camp :p I do have 2 belt sanders (4" x 36" & 2" x 42" -both w/potentiometers) that I've had some time behind on and been stocking up on the belts needed, my trusty Delta lasered drill press, couple jig's I've made for the grinding/filing job, a metal cutting bandsaw & alot of time and patience haha. As for the handles, I was thinking of some Rocky Mountain type tread in micarta but decided to use either kraton/thermorun molding -leaning towards kraton since it's a bit softer.

Anyhow, let me know whatcha think on the ht'ing and anything else you think of. I do want to do some clay coated 1080/1095 for a nice hamon after I do these first 2. In fact most of what I'll be doing after my first 2 will be 1080/1095 with the exception of some D2 for a small skinner that I have in mind. I'm very very excited and have been wanting to make my own for a very long time.
 
They have 1/4" stock 3V at nsm-ny.com. It's a bit thick unless you are making a competition chopper. You can use 5160 which is much cheaper, for choppers you don't really care about edge holding. And 5160 is the among the toughest short of the shock steels like S5.
 
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I would do g10 for the handles, it is tough and works easy :) Micarta is good but if you burn it then it smells like a rotting carcass.

The good thing about custom knives is you can make them however you :) I myself have made some thick knives and they are tough and cut, it is all about what you want to make and how you want to use it. Make sure you put up some pictures when you are done!
 
cotdt said:
They have 1/4" stock 3V at nsm-ny.com. It's a bit thick unless you are making a competition chopper. You can use 5160 which is much cheaper, for choppers you don't really care about edge holding. And 5160 is the among the toughest short of the shock steels like S5.
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Thanks alot for the reply cotd, I think I might have this in the wrong place as I got quite a few lookers and not many replies so I appreciate all that I can get. I know I seem to have my mind made up and I don't mean to come off as "closed".

I know I want 1/4" thickness for the chopper as I like the weight and strength of it. As for the smaller camp knife, I admit I do use my camp knives for more than just cutting, batoning and digging. There are times I pry relatively hard, alot of tunneling through various material so I need a strong thick tip as well. I like a good lateral strength for lifting rock on a hard surface enough to get a stick or my hands under so I may be able to life it. Suppose that's why most camp knives approach 1/4" because they provide that strength. But I am open to other thicknesses for the camp knife, I just don't want something that's gonna bend to easily or snap the tip under reasonable but rough use. Thats all :)

I am completely open on the choppers steel. I would love to try 5160/O1 or 52100 as I've yet to own any in these types of steels and they all seem very capable. I figure, although you may not have to worry much about edge retention on a chopper why not have it if you can as well. But I'm fine with a trade off for a good balance.

So out of 5160/O1 or 52100 would you say the 5160? What about the folks I mentioned for HT'ing, know anything on that? I really do appreciate your help and opinions man, and I am open. I do know some of the things I want and gotta stick close to them so I'm not wishing I would have kept true to what I want in the long run. I've done that way too many times.

Let me know what ya think brother :)


Jon Walker said:
I would do g10 for the handles, it is tough and works easy :) Micarta is good but if you burn it then it smells like a rotting carcass.

The good thing about custom knives is you can make them however you :) I myself have made some thick knives and they are tough and cut, it is all about what you want to make and how you want to use it. Make sure you put up some pictures when you are done!
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Hey thanks for the good words man. I will be all over the photo thing, definitely some videos of good use too -I love videos haha. Let me know whatcha think after reading above man, I'd could really use your opinions and knowledge. Im sorry I didnt mean to come off as "closed" as I stated above :( I love G-10 too man, I was thinking it may not be as comfortable as the kraton or thermorun though, what do you think?
 
3V and M4 would be great for choppers with high wear resistance, but they are expensive steels and you say that this is your first knife. They are air-hardening steels (as in cold nitrogen purge, not still air), so Paul Bos can heat treat them. Aim for 60-61 rc, the hardness is to prevent fatique wear, but also so that you can give it a finer edge so that it cuts better. Competition knives use 61 rc CPM M4.

I have a 5160 sword, chopped down a small tree with it once and it was still shaving. I don't use it for cutting things, but for tasks like chopping, batoning, or prying, the edge tends to last. I know that in theory 5160's edge retention is on the low end, but in the real world it's often used for heavy skinning and holds up really well.

O1 and 52100 you mention works too. These are all oil-quenching steels so most places won't heat treat them, but I can heat treat some one-offs for you.
 
For starting out 5160 is hard to beat. I buy mine from Kelly Cupples, he has no store you just need to email him. 5160 is the easiest to HT out of o1, 5160, and 52100. Most ABS test knives are 5160 for a good reason, it is tough stuff!

Cotdt gave you good info too, I would consider taking him up on his offer :)

G10 like any handle material is as comfortable as you make it. I like using 1/4 g10 and heavily shaping it. Here is a black g10 and 5160 fighter I forged out.
blackfighter029.jpg


Kind of hard to see but the handle is carved to fit the hand.
blackfighter023.jpg
 
You need to crawl before you walk. Walk before you run. Start out with a small simple design, simple grip material, and simple steel that you can learn to heat treat properly. 1070/80/84. Master that, then move on if you wish.
 
Jon Walker said:
For starting out 5160 is hard to beat. I buy mine from Kelly Cupples, he has no store you just need to email him. 5160 is the easiest to HT out of o1, 5160, and 52100. Most ABS test knives are 5160 for a good reason, it is tough stuff!

Cotdt gave you good info too, I would consider taking him up on his offer :)

Kind of hard to see but the handle is carved to fit the hand.
blackfighter023.jpg
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I really like the "finish" of your fighter, I can see how you contoured it and it looks awesome!! I think I got her nailed down for the chopper thanks to you guys :) :thumbup: As far as the handle material I always thought well textured G-10 was awesome for my slicers as they provided excellent grip regardless of the temp or wetness. I was mainly looking for an impact friendly material which is why I chose the above. I love my A1/Outkasts material, love it. But it would be so much easier and cheaper to use the g10 or like. I think I'll give that a shot as I was thinking of switching that up due to the wait and cost of having it molded. Although I have suitable funds for however far I'd like to take it, logically I'd like to keep this project under 400 as I'm sitting now material wise. So thank you for the suggestion Jon :) You've been a great help in me moving forward with my plans man :thumbup: Glad you came back in here and shared your knife as well. I've got a few smaller questions that I'll shoot you a pm on if you dont mind.

cotdt said:
3V and M4 would be great for choppers with high wear resistance, but they are expensive steels and you say that this is your first knife.

I know that in theory 5160's edge retention is on the low end, but in the real world it's often used for heavy skinning and holds up really well.

O1 and 52100 you mention works too. These are all oil-quenching steels so most places won't heat treat them, but I can heat treat some one-offs for you.
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Yeah the 3V was really cheap but a little thinner than I was planning on. Ill shoot you a pm about that and see what you think. I'd like to talk to you a bit about your process for HT'ing 52100 and 5160. I know Ed Fowler does great on the 52100 -from what I've read. I'll finish this up with ya through pm's if that's ok.
 
If your looking for a steel with great wear resistance, compressive strength, and is much less prone to chipping (3V or M4) perhaps take a look at DC53?
It's not a powdered metal, so its cheaper, but the carbide structure is very refined. It grinds and sharpens like a dream. I find that it is easier to work with than O1. I've used it for a number of different knives, particularly for blades that are subject to heavy abuse. The best rockwell range I've found is 60-62 C scale. Make sure not to heat treat it like D2. I get DC53 from Lindquist Steels. www.lindquiststeels.com
Good luck with whatever you decide, there are a lot of good choices.
 
outrage said:
If your looking for a steel with great wear resistance, compressive strength, and is much less prone to chipping (3V or M4) perhaps take a look at DC53?
It's not a powdered metal, so its cheaper, but the carbide structure is very refined. It grinds and sharpens like a dream. I find that it is easier to work with than O1. I've used it for a number of different knives, particularly for blades that are subject to heavy abuse. The best rockwell range I've found is 60-62 C scale. Make sure not to heat treat it like D2. I get DC53 from Lindquist Steels. www.lindquiststeels.com
Good luck with whatever you decide, there are a lot of good choices.
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Hey thanks alot for the option, reading up on it now man. I know, a little too many choices haha. Ahh, the more I read (as I'm slowly responding to you here) it seems it would make a very nice camp/utility blade -very nice man. I'll have to take tonight to see what I can learn about it :thumbup:
 
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