1st Knife

T

TimBetts

Joined
Apr 8, 2005
Messages
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Im wanting to make a knife (just a simple fixed blade) but I feel I dont have the needed tools to make it. All I have is various hacksaws, coping saws, electric drills with metal bits and I am getting a dremel with 150 bits. I dont have any access to a grinder and Im not sure what to look for when buying a grinder (eg. speed, power, any other details etc..) Ive been interested in knifes all my knife, I have a nice collection going (about 20 knifes, most of which are fixed blades, most from europe, no big brands or anything) and I since I have got enough money to buy a dremel, I feel that a knife is what I want to make. I was just wondering, can I make a decent knife with those tools, what material to use for the knife itself and the numbers of the various grits of paper that I will need.
Thanks in advance,
--Tim--
 
All you really need to make a knife are some files, sandpaper, a drill, and patience and time. ;) Many makers here have done just that with fantastic results. A Dremel is useful mostly for filework type stuff and for finishing finger grooves.

You'll need a large coarse bastard file, a finer second cut file, a round file and sandpaper: 100, 220, 400, 600 and finer if you want a finer finish. I take my hand sanding to 1500 and some go to 2000. Buy sandpaper all made by the same manufacturer - someone here mentioned that some time back and man are they right! Also, you can make or buy "safe" files with one or more edges ground smooth to protect areas that you don't want to remove any more metal from. ;)

I used a handheld drill for my first knives and while there's a good chance you could have trouble lining up the holes, it can be done. An inexpensive benchtop drill press is a valuable investment - probably far better to buy up front than a Dremel. You can get one at Harbor Freight for around $60 and they'll pay shipping. You might even have a HF store near you. (Danger! :D)

Do a search here for techniques like draw filing and hand sanding. Also check out Dan Gray's tutorials page for much great help from many experienced makers.

Good luck and have fun! Ask specific questions here and you'll find no end of helpful replies. This is a good place.

Edited to add: By the way, welcome to Shop Talk!
 
Thank you for the info. Just to clear things up, Im 14 years old (young for a knife-guy I know:)) and I live in the UK. I enjoy making things (mostly woodwork, so not much experience with metal) and as I said before I like knives. Ive heard that you can make blades from steel rules and since I have 5 of them, would this be a good material to use? One knife which I really want to make (perhaps not first knife though heh) is a balisong or butterfly knife, but Im not sure if that would be a good idea for a 1st knife.

Edited to ask: Is the large course 'bastard' file actually named a bastard, just wondering if thats slang for it because I dont want to ask at the tool store for a bastard file when its not named that :o
 
:D Yep, that's what it's called.

I don't know about the steel rule for a knife blade but I do know about making a butterfly knife too early in one's career. :eek: :o

Hold off on folders until you have a full compliment of reasonable machine tools. By that I mean a decent milling machine and plenty of the proper reamers and tap and die equipment. Folders must be made to very close tolerances and you just cannot do it with the everyday tools most of us have.

My seventh knife was a big balisong. Not only was the blade design a stretch for my grinding skills but I had no idea how to do the pivots well. I made every part of that knife at least twice over about ten years, and when I finally threw up my hands and just put it together, it absolutely sucked. Pretty, and sharp as all get out, but sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. You don't want that.

Stick to the simple stuff, enhance your tool collection and skills, and build up to what you really want to make. You'll be much happier.

14 is not too young to start making knives! You're not the only youngster starting this and most of us, knowing what we know from hindsight, which is how utterly gratifying making knives can be, wish we'd have started sooner too. Go for it!

I doubt HF would pay shipping to the UK but you may have a similar alternative. Check around, it'll be worth your while. (Get a drill press! ;))
 
Tim,At your age and experience level,you should consider a kit knife.Get the catalogs from as many knife supply companies as you can.Order some books on knife making (check your local library,too).Wayne Goddard's,"The $50 knife shop" is a good start for someone on limited funds.Read the tutorial links available on line.
I would recommend the GX6 gentleman's folding dagger kit (several suppliers carry it) is a good start. It is good looking and can be customized nicely.
A bastard file is the name of a type of file.
Stacy
 
Building a folder kit is a good idea. Darrel Ralph's company also makes a balisong kit called, I think, Typhoon. Those would give you a good idea of the parts required and the tolerances to work to, and provide the opportunity for some real customization. Wish I'd thought of that! Good one Stacy.

(I've built a couple of DDR's folder kits and it pretty much convinced me I'm not going to be a folder maker any time soon. :D)
 
I agree. Get a couple kits and work on some fit and finish skills, then make the jump. You can make a nice knife with very little. The few pics below are all ones that you could make with a drill, Dremel, 12" bastard file,220, 320, 400 and 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper, a few cups of vegetable oil, two propane or MAPP torches, some $2 refractory cement from Lowe's and a kitchen oven. At least, I did! Not trying to brag, but just to show you you can do a lot with a little if you put your mind (and body) into it! But, it took me weeks of work to make these, versus being able to make one knife in a day from start to finish with a real grinder! And, a lot of the skill of hand filing a knife is fine, but it doesn't translate at all to a 2x72 grinder, so that sucks, too. :(
shinli.jpg

stealthbomber2.jpg

carbonstreetbowie11.jpg

nemo.jpg

blackandtantanto2.jpg

koa7.jpg
 
Thanks for all the ideas and info guys, really appreciate it. Drill-press or Dremel?? Hmmm I dont know which to buy, I could buy both, but that would make my total cost over £100 (nearly $200) on my first trip to the hardware store :eek: so far Im getting a workbench, vice, various files, various grades of sandpaper, a dremel (or drillpress depending on what you guys think is more helpful) small hacksaw/coping saw. Anything else I need? :D I think that I am going to get a knife kit but due to them coming from the US I will need to wait a while, so I think that I will just try out making some basic blade shapes and try my hand at filework (I have done abit in school, even tried to make a blade in there :rolleyes: but the teacher blunt it before I left :( meany :P) so I think that I will just practise practise practise untill my kit gets here. That's the best way isnt it? Practising?

--Tim--

P.s. Lets see how my mum reacts when I have metal dust all over my room and all you can hear is the scraping of a file, whir of a drill and the buzz of a dremel :D hehe

Edited to add, Nice knives you made there, I will hopefully be making some nice ones soon :D
 
14 is NOT too young. I started at 15, but wish I started sooner (16 now)
Starting sooner around here gets you past the laws about age and buying a knife. ;)
I use a dremel on a regular basis. Good tool to have. I also use my drill press on a regular basis :( another good tool. I actually use my dremel to polish the blades to an extent. There are rubber polishing wheels that I use, and that takes out the bigger scratches. From there I go to sandpaper. This method conserves paper and takes a lot less time.
To cut out the blades, I use a drill with 3" cut off wheels. This does it MUCH faster than a hacksaw. You could use a dremel with cut off wheels, that's what I started with, but that takes upwards of 2 hours.
If you can find cut off wheels for your hand-held drill (assuming you have one..do you?) and a mandrel, then you won't need the hacksaw. The price of the mandrel and wheels down here is the same as a hacksaw and blades.

If I were in your shoes right now, I would suggest the drill press. You say you want to make a butterfly knife eventually, and you will NEED the drill press for that. I find it much better just for a fixed blade also. My first ones I did with a hand drill, and the bolts got bad placement because of the bit 'walking'. The drill press is more necessary in the long run than the dremel.

I have yet to make a kit knife. All my knives so far have been my own designs made from scratch. I do have a kit here that I am about to make, it's a folder. I bought it so I could learn more about folders, because I plan to start making several from scratch. Fixed blades are relatively simple, as long as you don't try something really far out! I would just buy some steel, and start making your own from scratch. It's more fun than a kit, knowing that you did 99% of the work.
Do you have any steel yet, or any steel suppliers that you know of in UK?
Finally, READ! Read a ton. That is actually how I got started making knives. I ran across a knifemaking book at the library, and I started making 'em. The $50 knife shop is a good one to get you started, like Bladesmth said.
Hope this helps
~Brian

-my second knife, with help from these guys at the forum:
2mimg7


www.geocities.com/jagknives
 
I am making a trip to the store either tonight, or tomorrow. I have see a drill press without the drill for cheap, I was thinking if I could get the dremel to fit into that, would that be OK, it would mean I am getting 2 tools in one for less than half of both items together. I have some steel, a peice of silver steel (extra carbon) I think, thats what my metalwork teacher told me it was anyway. its 5 1/4" long and 3/4" wide, with a thickness of 1mm. Its just the right size for a small fixed blade, and I already have 3 designs I thought up draw onto card templates, now its just a matter of deciding which one to go for. Take a look at this, its relativly cheap and Im not sure if it would be useful: Grinder would this be of any help?

Edited to answer some Q's I forgot to answer: Yes I do have a hand drill, and I will buy some 3" cut off wheels if thats what is best to cut the steel with. Dont mean to sound dumb but what is a mandrel, I dont understand from google images when i searched for it :o
 
Oh, and one REALLY important piece of equipment I forgot to mention is a respirator. All knife stuff is really bad for your health, so rather than rehashing all of it, do a search in this forum under "respirators" and you'll get everything you need to know. A respirator is the most important piece of equipment you can buy, and don't be grinding this stuff anywhere except a workshop/rarely used room. This stuff is nasty and you don't want to be rolling around in it and eating it and sleeping with it.
 
Hmmmmmmm.....something tells me it would be better not to have my workshop setup in my bedroom?? Heh, that creates a problem, the shed and the garage are both totally full, no basement, no little-used rooms, that only leaves outside, maybe if I covered the worktable and put all my tools away that would work, cos outside is the best ventilated area isnt it.
 
Mandrel...uhh guys can you help with a def?
It's basically a rod meant to hold something, and be rotated...in simplist of terms.
What I was speaking of is a shaft that goes in the chuck of the drill, and has a screw that screws into the end. The wheel goes between the screw and the body of the shaft...that help? I can post some pictures if needed.

I would NOT recommend a 'drill press' like what you are saying. You are talking about one that you attatch a hand drill to, and thereby have a makeshift drill press. I am not impressed with those...they don't seem to work well to me. I wouldn't waste your money on a setup like this. They run $20-$40 here, not sure what that converts to there.

You need a drill press, where it IS the drill. That would be your best bet. Here in the states we have Harbor Freight. It's an inexpensive made in china company. They sell a pretty good drill press that goes on sale every month for $40. Maybe UK has a simlar company??

The grinder would come in very handy. Less time filing. I have a belt sander and a grinder. I use the grinder to start the blade bevel, and do shaping. The sander finishes it up, and flattens everything out. If you can afford it, it might be a better idea to get that before the drill press. It depends on what you hold more valuble: time or accuracy. With the grinder, the knife would take less time, but without the drill press, holes would be hard to place accurately. Without the grinder, the knife will take much longer, but the holes, etc. will be placed more accuratly. Trade offs.

Steel. Mete would be a good one to ask here about that steel (right guys? I think that's the name) I would suggest a leaf spring off a car. Go to your local car junkyard, and ask for a few leaf springs. They are relatively cheap, and the steel is great for a knife.

and as Chiro said, probably the most important piece of equipment would be a respirator. Also, when you start working with that power equipment, like a grinder, the eyewear is also very important. I wear both on a regular basis.

Post pictures of your knife when you make it ;)
~Brian
 
Hey Tim. Never too early or late to take the plunge , I'm 38 and just starting to learn all this wonderful knowledge. I've been starting out by doing simple filework on knives I allready have , also buying cheap Pakistan knives and heavily modifying them i.e new scales , stock removal , filework , etching and bluing , all of this gives me a feel for making my own blades soon.
I have a Busse bootknife blank I'm going to start working on tonight , cant wait ! :)
 
Well, I brought the dremel :D This is the dremel that I got, with 28 tips and a router guide too, all for only £50 (cheap!!) I decided it would not only help with knife making but also for making everything else, polishing stuff I never thought would be shiny again etc. Next on the list is that grinder/sander combo, but I think that I will use the dremel for my 1st knife, I mean, Ive only just brought this and I cant spend money that often heh! There are high quality dremel drill presses which clip the dremel in (hoping they are not as sloppy as the others) and I might get that. But!! 1st of all I need a workspace, I think my dad is gonna clear some shed space out for me, so that way I can have that grinder/sander. Anyone used a dremel for the entire making of a knife? If so is it difficult?
I suppose a few other tools can be brought,and seeing as I dont have a vice :eek: anymore, then I really need one! Another trip to the store methinks! Thanks for all the help guys, and yes, pictures are going to be taken every step of the way so you can see how I made it, and how to improve :)
 
Always good to see another new maker. I have not read all the previous replies so if i repeat something sorry about that.

Just a note on safety. If you have not done metal clases at school. Metal has a tendancy to grab as you drill through it. That is as the drill bit starts to come out the other side it stopps cutting and grabbs the steel spinning it around like a propeller. If you hand is holding the metal it can cause cuts and injury to your hands and any other part of your body hit by the flying metal.

That incldes your eyes. Please wear safety glasses and hold the metal with suitable plyers or vice.

Apart from the need for safety. You should have some fun making knives. Parts will be hard work like the filing, but worth it. If you live anywhere near an industrial area see if you can find a spring maker. Be bold go ask them if they have any annealed spring steal in 5 or 6 mm flat bare. It makes good bowies and macheties. If you get the right bloke he may give you a couple of off cuts otherwise sell it to you for a $1 a foot.

Good luck and have fun. Also be carefull where you take your knives when finished often the local police have problems with knives in public places without good excuses.
 
14 is not to young to make knives.I started at 13 and am now 14 1/2, I believe i make some good knives. the fourms help alot. deffinatly get a drill press. try to get summer jobs( mowing, delivering papers, babysitting.... a few hours of no fun work makes you money to buy much needed tools that will make you happy for a long time. only tip i can give right now is patience.
If your going to use files you'll need alot of it
 
14 is definitely not too young, and you don't seem adverse to asking for help like I so stubbornly was.

One tip that I would like to offer you, is to buy good equipment. Quality tools are more safe and will last longer than cheap junk. If you have a question about that, I'm certain that the makers on the site can hook you up.

As for shop location, I currently live in an apartment with a bathroom, a kitchen/living room, and a bedroom. My entire shop is mobile. I do my power and heat treating work outside on nice days. I do my finishing sanding and things like that inside over a box and some old newspapers. If you have a small place outdoors you could work, it would be better than working in your bedroom. That is, unless you want saw and metal dust all over the room you sleep in. A shed would be great, since there you'd probably be able to work with less regard to weather than I do.

I have to agree that a kit sounds like a great idea for you, since you have a limited amount of experience and tools. I have quite a few dremel drill attachments, and if you want to make an entire knife with the dremel drill, it can be done. I would suggest some finer sandpaper as well, as dremel drills are really easy to gouge a blade with when sanding and I have not been able to find that fine of sandpaper for the drums or disks.

The knife I have been working on recently is mostly a dremel drill knife. Other things I've used have been a saw for the oak handle, my little homemade heat treating forge, my little belt sander, and some steel wool.

I really want a drill press. I would definitely suggest getting one, since they make life a lot easier.

And don't forget clamps.

Welcome to the obsession.

Daniel Denton
 
Thanks again (I say this everytime heh) Work on the blade starts today hopefully, but I dont have a work bench or vice atm, should buy one today tho. So your saying to take the shed if I have the chance, but working outdoors and indoors can be done? I think that my dad might clear me out some shed space, but if not I will have to work outdoors and indoors depending on the weather (more bad than good weather, this is England :D)
The dremel is great, all my older knifes are shiny and sharpened already. Next up on the list to buy is sandpaper (totally forgot what ones I need when I got to the store:o) I think Im going to get 200,400,800,1000, do I need anymore? Ohhh and one other thing, Ive been searching for backyard heat treatment, but seeing as my PC isnt very good, google sometimes doesnt want to work, can anyone give me a link or anything which explains how to heat-treat at home?

EDIT: Stupid bloody typos
EDIT 2: Got some pics, this is it after being cut and grinded, and 60,80 and 120 emery cloth had been put to it. There are 3 main areas where I scuffed it, but fortunatly, 2 are covered by the handle.

In hand

2nd Picture

Slipped Dremel

2nd Slip of Dremel
 
Good Luck Tim Now I do not know the situation in the UK but my I make you mindful that you can always follow a very old and venerated tradion of scrounging for the materials and tools you need and make the knives pay for themselves by sellilng them . See how much of the reciepts you can channel back into more equipment or materials. Go for balance always! Best of all situations is the knifemaking pays for itself and doesn't hold you back when you look at the cost of a material or machine you need to advance your skills..The investment is to become a more skilled and specialzed knifemaker.
There is no amount of money that can buy skills like that, Even Father Adam made and used knives so its got to be the oldest pastitmes, take up your link in this forever chain and welcome!
 
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