1st time in TN (CRKT M16-02Z)

chacodude

chacodude

Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Messages
51
Went to a local venue for a show last night here in Knoxville
and the guys at the door made me leave my CRKT M16-02Z
at the booth.

I may be less informed, but have been under impression
that 4" blade is max for legal carry. This knife is less than
4" and I make a point to never buy anything more than
3.5" blade just to be less than dubious.

Personally I carry a knife for general purpose and would
never have to go to extreme to pull it on a person for jack!
Understood that leaving a knife at the door is as much a
safety net for the bouncers as much the people inside.
I didn't hassle and left it with some young girl who didn't
hardly even acknowledge me or give a claim check or
anything. Glad I didn't have my f*ing Sebenza in my
pocket! To boot this was a all ages benefit show and
children were present. I'm 41 and not that rough
looking unless a nerd with glasses scared these guys!
It wasn't like going to a seedy dive with a rough crowd.


Picking it up was the same, I was asked what color it was.
No detail, no ID no nothing. That part is what annoyed me
the most being it is my personal property...and if I'm right
in the legal realm.

So there's my first brush in a local venue. Comments
welcome!

A
 
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I would have politely told them that the knife is legal under state law, and if they still wanted me to hand it over, I would ask for something of equal value as collateral (fat chance that's going to happen). If they refused, I would simply inform them that I'd be taking my business elsewhere, and leave.
 
Legal knife or not, I believe that the organisers have every right to ask you to check your knife at the entrance. After all, it´s their place, so their rules apply. It´s up to them if they want to allow knives.
 
Were you at a club or something? In most places, clubs don't allow their customers to carry any sort of weapons/tools, even if they are legal- because those venues sometimes have physical altercations- and weapons can make those situations worse- even deadly. This is further complicated if alcohol is served/consumed on sight. People do things out of their norm when they are drunk. A little over a century ago, the Deleware State Supreme Court justified that state's prohibition on the carriage of concealed deadly weapons without a permit on similar grounds- "
The object of this section is to prevent the
carrying of concealed deadly weapons about the person,
because persons becoming suddenly angered, and having such
a weapon in their pocket, would be likely to use it, which
in their sober moments they would not have done, and which
could not have been done had not the weapon been upon
their person
Click to expand...
"

It probably would be a good idea to let management know that youre disappointed with their check process, and recommend that they use something like bag claim tags at least. However, in the future, it would be advisible to leave your tool in the car (or at home) to avoid this sort of situation in the future.
 
Out of curiosity, which venue was it? (I live in Knoxville)
 
shootist16 said:
Out of curiosity, which venue was it? (I live in Knoxville)
Click to expand...

Venue was Valarium for the ReDistilled WUTK benefit.
It's in such a nice part of town and all. :D

Digressing a bit from Knife Law itself here, just
laying down my take. I can definitely agree with
the comment above that the door guys have right
to decide what comes in the door. Perfectly
reasonable, and in my case I don't carry a knife
for defense, but for utility. Pulling a knife is just
asking for it. Nice to have when you need for
something though (and I don't mean stabbing
people!).

On the other part (legal or not) being that a knife
taken up (3.125" blade ) is someone's property
and, when taking from them shouldn't there at
least be a "coat check" or some kind of ID assignment?

Andrew
 
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I have to disagree slightly. I think that when you open your property to the public for profit then the state carry laws should apply. It should not be up to the owner at that point. Unfortunately liability laws make the owner responsible if someone does something stupid. The argument goes on and on. However, if one was threatened or assaulted the fact that your only means of defense was taken away from you is an even better grounds for suit.

Rant over. I had the same thing happen in Las Vegas. I got the attendant to sign a plain sheet of paper that said she acknowledged receipt of my knife. (A Spyderco Delica) Then she put it in a box with several other knives. There wasn't a good check-in/check-out system there either.
 
I tote everywhere in TN, especially Nashville, always making sure my blade is under 4". My contract work allows me to carry it on work sites where others are normally checked. Nobody takes my knife. If they ever ask for it, they won't get it. I lock it in the vehicle when going into the courthouse where they will ask for it. I liken being asked to hand over my RAT RC-3 or SOG Powerlock multitool that I EDC to handing over parts of my private anatomy. I don't do the nightclub scenes much, I just recently toted a Spyderco Native into the Wildhorse, wasn't asked anything, it was a company-sponsored event. I wore it inside the belt, under my shirt. If detected and asked for it, I would have taken it back to the car. If I could not re-enter, so much for that joint. Nobody takes my knife.
 
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chacodude said:
Venue was Valarium
Click to expand...

I know those guys pretty good from, Blue Cats and Fiction. They want to avoid problems so they have a policy in place. I know it sucks, but they have had problems with fights and such.
 
chacodude said:
On the other part (legal or not) being that a knife
taken up (3.125" blade ) is someone's property
and, when taking from them shouldn't there at
least be a "coat check" or some kind of ID assignment?

Andrew
Click to expand...


It would be smart for them to tag it so it can be readily returned to owner.
 
shootist, I have worked security at clubs in my LEO days, and I suggested issueing calim checks for legal knives but have always been told that the lawyers for the clubs stress NOT to issue anything that admits you are checking weapons for return to the owner. The thought is you are returning a potential weapon to someone you have served drinks too. If there is an offical procedure in place then the club is liable, otherwise it is something the bouncers did the club ownership did not know about....
 
No Joe-bob, civil liabilty and what you can legally do have miles between the two. You can legally collect the knife and return it, that is legal. You may be sued ( civil matter not criminal or illegal) if you return the knife to some one who is now impared by the drinks they just consumed and that person causes harm to himself or others with it. The fact that you sold them the drinks and there by profitted by it furthers your liabilty. Many clubs in NY have gotten away from valet parking for just this reason ( giving control of a car back to the guy who is now impared)....Do you see the difference now?
 
What are the knife size limits in Tennessee? I'm thinking of taking a knife to the Smokey Mountains. Is it really 4 inches? Can you carry larger knives around town if visible/not concealed?
 
Jennifer, no it means they have very good attorneys who reviewed case law in this type of matter and advised their client ( the club) how to behave so as to limit their liability and have a stronger defense.
 
Unless I misread it, their advice is to continue to have the bouncers collect knives, but don't issue claim checks in case you're sued. Then claim they had no idea what the bouncers were doing, and pretend not to be liable for their employee's on the job actions?

That doesn't sound like very good advice to me.

Did you keep collecting knives from patrons after they told you their plan in case of trouble was to throw you under the bus?

I've only been to a couple places where this was any kind of issue, and their policy was "take it back to your car and leave it there".
 
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"Did you keep collecting knives from patrons after they told you their plan in case of trouble was to throw you under the bus?"

I have NO CLUE what you mean by this so I won't honor it with an answer

"I've only been to a couple places where this was any kind of issue, and their policy was "take it back to your car and leave it there".

In many major cities people arrive at clubs via taxi or mass transit, therefore no car. Bouncers almost everywhere work as independant contactors not employees of the club. There are many legal reasons for this and the better clubs have you fill out a form clearly stating the relationship. Also most are off duty LEOs ( or at least one working is) and they ( or he) can lawfully safe guard a weapon. Law class is over.
 
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What I mean is, it sounds like their plan was to deny they told you to hold & return weapons to customers, and leave you personally liable. If they're sued, you would be the one holding the bag.

I'm a little confused, if bouncers are contract employees and the club has no official policy regarding issuing claim checks for weapons, isn't it up to the bouncer, not the club, to decide whether or not to do it?

It seems like the best way to avoid potential liability would be to follow the valet parking example, and simply not provide the service that puts you at risk.
 
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Night clubs are in general a nightmare from a liability point of view. They are in constant fear of doing something that will endanger their liquour license, so they must make sure no drugs/weapons/underage customers get in their clubs. In NYS if you have more than a couple on arrest in your licensed location then your liquour license is gone. Clubs try to meet the needs of the law and their customers. When a LEO acts with in the jurisdiction he has authority in, he limits the liabilty of the club once he identifies himself as a Officer. He is then acting on behalf of the agentcy he works for. It is a very delicate balance at play in what is and is not permissible. If you looked the other way and there was a shooting/stabbing in the club, then the days would be very few before you were sued by at least the victim, and most likely a few others who would claim some sort of emotional damage from the incident. The long and short of it is lawyers have created a nearly impossible enviornment to safely conduct business in.
 
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