1st try at damascus steel

D

Dr.O

Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
69
Well, I know why people use a power hammer or hydraulic press to make this stuff! After spending 3 hours swinging a 8lb sledge last night with a buddy holding the steel on the anvil, I'm sore.

I only managed to draw it out from 3" to 6".

I didn't use borax, or flux, I stacked 151n20 alt with 1095 and welded every seam with a mig welder.

Any reason that would work to keep Oxygen out, and let the steel weld under the hammer?

OH EDIT:
Which leads me to my other question, where would I look for a good press to do this? It may very well be something that must be built rather than bought, I just don't know.
 
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Others can help ya with the sledge but Ill give my input on my few experiments with hand forging out damascus.

I only weld both ends on the billet then weld my hand hold to one end. If its some thin stock that may bow out in the middle Ill tack the middle on both sides. Just remember its gotta get ground off.

Ive been playing with dry welding and it works very well. I only use a 4lb hammer and do it myself so. Gotta make sure your up to temp I run about 2300F and let it sit there for a little while to make sure the temp is even thruout. Bring it out and just tap around the edges and the middle, gets the steel touching everywhere nice and good then put it back in and let it soak for a bit. Then I pull it out and evenly as possible give it some good hits thruout. This helps get it all mated up then back in the forge. I think others were saying most of the welding actually occurs while in the forge.

Make sure your gas and air are adjusted properly. I make sure Ive got a good dragons breath coming out the front of the forge and block off most of the entrance while the billet is coming up to heat.

Thats my experience, not sure if that helps at all. Drawing it out depending on how thick the billet is will be a pain. I would look at the rolling mill build thread in hammer and tongs. That is what I would really like to have personally.
 
If two guys were pounding on a 3" billet for 3 hours with an 8# maul and only got it drawn out double something is wrong. Are you drawing it out at welding heat? Are you using a drawing hammer. Are you drawing on the flat or on the bick? Have you ever drawn out a bar of steel before?

I made a drawing die for hand forging. It is a half round slice of 3" round stock with a 3/4" square hardie stub welded to the back side. Place it in the hardie, set the hot steel on it, and strike with a 4# hammer ( or have strikers hit it).
 
We were smashing it on the flat surface of the anvil, is this wrong?

Like I said, this was my first try. I could have researched it a bit more, but we were dicking around in the shop, my buddy was having some beers wanting to do something, so homeade damascus attempt it was!

Still fun, even if we were all wrong about it! Temps were good, so I know it wasn't that variable.
 
I sawed off the end of the billet and rubbed a little ferric chloride (1st time to mess with FC) and this is what I got.

It welded good as far as I can tell, there is a tiny little spot, that is cracked, but that is from me cutting the sample so close to the edge, it's actually the outside you are seeing.
 
Wow, my starting billets are that thick... Doubled length = half that.

Smashing it on the flat won't get 'r' done. You are essentially trying to compact the uncompactible. The only force directing it in any real direction is a slight unevenness of the hammer strike. A drawing hammer (seen em at the box stores as a 'blacksmith hammer') has a flat end and a drawing end. A half round die like Stacy described is great, and puts more even direction on the billet. Or, I use a 3' section of rail and use the curved shoulder to draw. If you have a hammer and anvil only, work off the edge or make a die like Stacy described.

Forging made more sense to me when I was shown with play-doh. (Don't laugh till you've tried it.) If you push straight down it wants to go everywhere. If you use a round rod and push it down into the clay it works directionally oposite the straights of the rod. Do this is succession and you draw the billet out.

Welding up all the sides is not necessary and only gives you more to grind off and more to fight against when forging. Simple tack welds on the ends and maybe sides is all thats necessary. (One of my mentors uses wire and just wraps it tight. His hammer and tong technique is way better than mine though...) From the pic, the welds look good. Better than my first few attempts at forge welding honestly.

Cheers

-Eric
 
To draw a bar of steel....or a billet of damascus...you have to apply the force in a localized area with the pressure pushing the hot steel in the direction you want it to move. A power hammer or press with drawing dies does this very fast and well. A drawing hammer ( cross peen or vertical peen), or a drawing die will do this just as well ( but slower) by hand. When working by hand, thinner billets are a good idea.

Using the bick ( horn) of the anvil as a drawing surface works OK, but an evenly rounded surface is better. It can be a simple as a pinch fuller made from 3/4" round stock. Any rounded surface works well. A half-round fuller die, a rounded section of RR track, a top fuller,....etc. If using these devices, us a standard face hammer to strike the steel and push it down onto the die. If drawing on the anvil flat, use the peen to make the "dent" in the billet so that it pushes the metal toward the ends. Go down one side of the billet, flip it, and go down the other side to prevent "stretching". The side against the curved surface 9 drawing die or peen) will stretch more than the side against the flat surface (flat hammer or anvil face). Flipping the billet each end-to-end pass will prevent problems.

When welding the billet and drawing it out, start at welding heat. Once fully welded, continue to start at welding heat and draw it out as it cools down, quitting at bright red ( around 1600°F). On successive heats as the billet gets thinner, you can start around 2200° and work till 1600°. Pounding till it is dull red will shear the welds sooner or later.
 
Thanks guys, that really helps. And to think, there was a section of rr track 3 feet away, lol.
 
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