2 campers shot in their sleep

A

Alvin Hom

Joined
May 6, 2004
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The question has been raised here on the need for guns in the wilderness. While it may have been impossible to prevent this (how do you defend yourself from someone shooting you while you sleep?), this incident reinforces some of the points made here about crazy people out in the woods and the fact that you are isolated out there. They were a young couple going to married soon. Looks like they were shot while they slept in their sleeping bags. :(

This stuff makes me sick.


http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/West/08/20/camp.counselors.slain.ap/index.html


Two campers found slain on California beach
Police say they were shot in sleep
Friday, August 20, 2004 Posted: 1454 GMT

Authorities are seen at Fishhead Beach, north of Jenner, California, on Thursday at the site where two dead bodies were discovered.

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- A soon-to-be married couple reported missing when they didn't return to their jobs as camp counselors were found shot to death on a beach, apparently in their sleep, authorities said.

The bodies of Lindsay Cutshall, 23, of Ohio, and Jason Allen, 26, of Michigan, were discovered in sleeping bags by sheriff's deputies who were rescuing a stranded hiker.

"They were shot in the head, presumably in their sleep because there was no disturbance at their camp site," Lt. Dave Edmonds said. The victims had valuables nearby that weren't taken, Edmonds said.

Police believe the couple had been camping in the Jenner area, about 75 miles up the coast from San Francisco, since Saturday. Authorities do not know when the couple was killed. Autopsies were planned for Friday.

The two were spending the summer working at Rock-N-Water, a Christian adventure camp in Coloma, in the Sierra foothills about 50 miles east of Sacramento.

They were reported missing Monday after they didn't return to camp. They were last seen Friday when they said they were going to visit friends and would get back on Sunday, sheriff's officials said.

Authorities said the two bodies appeared to have been on the beach for more than 24 hours when they were spotted by a helicopter crew sent to rescue a 17-year-old boy who had fallen about 50 feet while trying to retrieve a purse his girlfriend dropped.

The hiker, who was clinging to a rocky cliff when rescuers arrived, was pulled up by a paramedic attached to the helicopter by a 100-foot rope
 
As to the question of whether or not one needs be armed while out in the boonies, I imagine this article/incident will make no difference to virtually anyone.

Those who say they've never gone armed while out, as they don't feel any need for a weapon, will read the article and say, "Well, that unfortuante incident was merely an abberation. Almost never happens and the odds are, it couldn't happen to me."

Those of us who DO go armed out in the boonies, will say, "See, those poor young people are no longer part of the "odds," they are now part of the statistics, and it proves that a terrible incident can happen to anyone, anywhere. If they'd had a gun and known how to use it, they might have survived."

The "I-don't-need-a-weapon-while-out-in-the-boonies" people will continue to go out, unarmed, and the "I-carry-a-gun-while-out-in-the-boonies" crowd, will continue carrying. So, nothing will change.

As for me, being aware of my surroundings has long compelled me to NEVER sleep on the beach, or near a stream or river. One can't hear anything at night but waves crashing and water gurgling. Especially being in bear country, I like to know what, or who, is sniffing around my tent.

FWIW. L.W.
 
Those who say they've never gone armed while out, as they don't feel any need for a weapon, will read the article and say, "Well, that unfortuante incident was merely an abberation. Almost never happens and the odds are, it couldn't happen to me."

... snip ...

The "I-don't-need-a-weapon-while-out-in-the-boonies" people will continue to go out, unarmed, and the "I-carry-a-gun-while-out-in-the-boonies" crowd, will continue carrying. So, nothing will change.
Click to expand...

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.
 
Code: 
how do you defend yourself from someone shooting you while you sleep?

There are devices that one can set to provide at least some warning of intrusion within a perimeter.

S.
 
Sidewinder said:
Code: 
how do you defend yourself from someone shooting you while you sleep?

There are devices that one can set to provide at least some warning of intrusion within a perimeter.

S.
Click to expand...

Don't camp too near the ocean (or any running water for that matter), where you can't hear approaching 2-legged or 4-legged critters.

Don't camp where there's no camping allowed.

Better yet, bring your dog. Or, if no dog, like Sidewinder said, emplace multiple dc-powered motion-sensors (they're cheap these days, $10-15 a piece) with overlapping coverage before settling down.

Or if you're loaded beyond belief, there are portable, miniature perimter seismic-warning systems too. :0
 
My dog, a German shepherd, is my source of nighttime comfort.

I may have posted this story here before: One night when my wife and I were sleeping, my dog awoke with a start from the foot of the bed. He had detected an intruder -- orange hair, 10 lbs, about 8 inches tall. It was the cat trying to slink up the carpeted stairs.

Get a good dog and the sneaks will have an awfully hard time getting to you.

Scott
 
Sad stuff. Scary, I'm camping with my wife this weekend. First time in a long time. Dog, gun, and big ass knife are a must for me.
 
I camp with my friend Dan, the ex Force-Recon man. He appears to be a grey haired old man...LOL... Oh the fun he has. He could fill Jeff Dahmers fridge with just a credit card, and I don't mean by shopping at the A&P.
Just don't approach him while he sleeps. People look at you funny on their mornin walk if the camp has heads on poles around the tent.
 
Severtecher,

That's pretty good! I had a friend who was also Force Recon. Cut from the same cloth, or maybe tempered in the same fire.

This has always been a concern for me, especially since my wife likes to hear a babbling brook to put her to sleep. I think I'll have to get a dog.

I've heard that this is a favorite trick of drug smugglers when they hit the beach, take out any witnesses. I'll be interested to hear what the news makes of it when the facts are in.
 
Sorry to hear about this.

Have a gun! It's not always the answer and you may choose not to use it. However, at least if you are armed you have a choice.

Have to admit, it's been a long time since I've been "camping". However, I never sleep well outside of my home.
 
Alvin Hom said:
(how do you defend yourself from someone shooting you while you sleep?)
Click to expand...

1. Travel armed.

2. ALWAYS have someone awake.

3. DO NOT build a fire.

4. Camp in places that folks will not want to search for you in such as thick brush or thorns.


ALL of the above won't make for a comfortable camping experience but it might keep you alive.
 
A bit strange... I wonder which of their friends shot them, or if they were they shot by a terrorist/drug/illegal infiltration team......

n2s
 
It is good to have a gun and a dog, and actually, my best watchdog is a VERY alert Chihuahua! Nothing escapes that little dog's notice, man nor beast. Our 120-pound mongrel monster may be a better defender, but it is the Chihuahua who wakes him up. My theory is that a small dog must fear predators, and therefore remains more alert than a larger dog.
 
It would have made no difference ,as I dont believe you are allowed to carry in the state of Cali anyway?Aint it funny?You cant carry in a state but the bad guys can :grumpy:
 
Law says you can't drive over 55 (or 65 in some states)... I guess people never exceed that, especially when you try to get out of the blind spot of an 18 wheeler.
 
MARSUPIAL -- "It would have made no difference ,as I dont believe you are allowed to carry in the state of Cali anyway?"
______________________________________________________________

Actually, in the case of these two, they could have had a gun with them, UNLESS in a State or Nat'l. Park. Kalif. Law does NOT forbid having a gun in "camp," or OPENLY carrying a gun, while out in the boonies. So, legally, they could have had a firearm with them if they'd chose to do so.

In any incorporated area of the State of Kalif., well that's a different matter. There are many, many complicated and convoluted anti-gun laws that have been passed by the communistnazis who run Kalif.

FWIW. L.W.
 
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