2 respected Carbon Blade Steels

Joined
Nov 20, 2004
Messages
4,827
I guess in a way I know enough about blade steels to be dangerous :rolleyes: . I have a big HTC ( 15 inch) Gurkha Kukri that I use going through timber and it is an excellent tool that I have only had to sharpen once in the last year. It has a blade steel that the industry knows as CARBON V.

Now I also have it on good word that BUSSE has a premium high carbon steel called INFI that is supposedly even better than Carbon V.

2 questions:::: First of all which one of those is the best? Second which popular high carbon blade steel is currently regarded as the "cat's meow" and would be ideal for a big bowie the size of Cold Steel's Trailmaster?

I'm just trying to learn>> not taking sides with any knife company on this one. Just the facts please :D
 
D2? Why? Not the best for fixed blade imho. Good enough for a folder :p

JD-Spydo - there is wide selection of carbon steels, from low alloy ones to tool steels with lots of alloys, any of them has it's use

I would go for tool steel in folder and small fixed blade and low alloy carbon steel in big fixed blade.
 
CPM 3V for a very tough steel that will hold an edge. Good choice for a big blade designed for chopping. The Fehrman knives are a good example.

There are lots of good carbon steels L6, O-1, A-2, 52100, 50100, How about L6/1095 Damascus.

Not carbon, but S30V is a high quality cutlery steel with a good balance of corrosion resistance, edge retention and toughness. Great steel for folders IMO.
 
If the choice is between Carbon-V and INFI, then the winner is clearly INFI. Unless price is a serious factor. INFI is much more expensive than Carbon-V, but it is also a lot nicer for a serious use knife. I have blades in both Carbon-V and INFI and I use them both, but if I could only have one it would be INFI.

If cost is a consideration, then please consider SR-101. Swamp Rat Knife Works (also a Busse company) makes knives in SR-101. It is almost as good as INFI but a lot less expensive.
 
JD Spydo said:
I guess in a way I know enough about blade steels to be dangerous :rolleyes: . I have a big HTC ( 15 inch) Gurkha Kukri that I use going through timber and it is an excellent tool that I have only had to sharpen once in the last year. It has a blade steel that the industry knows as CARBON V.

Now I also have it on good word that BUSSE has a premium high carbon steel called INFI that is supposedly even better than Carbon V.

2 questions:::: First of all which one of those is the best? Second which popular high carbon blade steel is currently regarded as the "cat's meow" and would be ideal for a big bowie the size of Cold Steel's Trailmaster?

I'm just trying to learn>> not taking sides with any knife company on this one. Just the facts please :D

Sir I tested both and this is the result:

Gentlemen

I decided to make a chop off test between the Cold Steel Trail Master (TM) and the Busse Heavy Ordinance Fusion Steel Hart limited edition (HOFSH LE)
I also through in the Cold Steel Kukri as a wild card to see how this true chopping machine would do among ordinary knives.

The knife specs are:

Cold Steel TM old satin version 9.5" blade made from 5/16" carbon V, the knife is a factory second. (The grind is not perfect on the left side)

Busse HOFSH LE 8" blade made from 5/16" INFI steel

Cold Steel kukri 12" blade made from 5/16" Carbon V stock

This test is not made to make one knife look better then the other.
The TM is my old trusted knife and the HOFSH LE is a new knife that I have not experienced so much with.

ChopOffTrailMasterandHOFSHLE1.jpg


ChopOffTrailMasterandHOFSHLE2.jpg
 
I started off chopping some dry pine logs. I did not try to chop with the fewest strokes but just worked normal like I would if I was setting up a camp.
These are the results:

After 50 strokes the TM made it this far into the log.

ChopOffTrailMasterandHOFSHLE3.jpg


The log was chopped in half after 149 strokes.

ChopOffTrailMasterandHOFSHLE4.jpg



The HOFSH LE made it this fare after 50 strokes.

ChopOffTrailMasterandHOFSHLE5.jpg


The log was chopped in half after 127 strokes.

ChopOffTrailMasterandHOFSHLE6.jpg


I was exited to see if the Kukri would do much better, after all it is made for chopping and is larger.
This is what the log looked like after 50 strokes.

ChopOffTrailMasterandHOFSHLE7.jpg


The log was chopped in half after 97 strokes.

ChopOffTrailMasterandHOFSHLE8.jpg



All tree knives performed very well and the knives where still very sharp. Boy was I having fun

ChopOffTrailMasterandHOFSHLE9.jpg


I decided to chop some birch wood, also dry wood that was laying around the camp site where this test took place.

These are the results:

TM 25 strokes

HOFSH LE 32 strokes

Kukri 20 strokes

ChopOffTrailMasterandHOFSHLE10.jpg


ChopOffTrailMasterandHOFSHLE11.jpg


ChopOffTrailMasterandHOFSHLE12.jpg


I do not feel that the TM did better then the HOFSH LE and the explanation for the fewer strokes is that almost every stroke was perfect.

After chopping the birch wood I inspected the knives with my nail to feel if the knives had any chips or uneven development on the edge. The Busse knife had some very minor deformation/unevenness but is was very little. This might be due to the fact that the edge is a factory edge and a bit more rough then the polished edge on my Cold Steel knives. All tree knives where still sharp but non of them where able to shave hair on the part of the blade where the blade had worked the most.

These are the small deformation that the HOFSH LE obtained in the test. It is a little difficult to see - sorry.
 
The weight is:
Kukri 630 gr.
Trail Master 454 gr.
HOFSH LE 750 gr.

Gentlemen I did some more testing today.

This time I wanted to chop with maximum strength to see if the knives worked better with that technique.
This time I used leather gloves.
I also wanted to do some limbing.
The wood is pine and not fresh.

I found tree small trees that where pretty much the same. The thickest one where for the Kukri, he had it coming after doing so well in the last test.

Choptesttwo2.jpg


The limbing took about 3-4 minutes all depending on how many limbs where on the tree.
The kukri felt a little heavy for this type of work but it was no problem working with it. On a 1-10 I rated the performance 7.

The Trail Master felt allot lighter and worker very well for this task. It was the fastest of the lot. I rated its performance 9.

The HOFSH LE is the heaviest knife of the lot but for this job it did not matter. Sliding the knife along the log worked well and the weight was working for the knife not against it. It is however a little more bulkier then the Trailmaster and its performance is rated 8 but a high 8.

Choptesttwo3.jpg


Choptesttwo4.jpg


The logs where ready for some POWER chopping and my muscles where warm.
The knives was inspected and no blade damage was observed on any of the knives.

I chopped the same piece of wood with all the knives and used the thickest one. (the one that was limbed by the kukri)

The Kukri was first. Please note that the log gets a little thinner after a piece is chopped of. The first tree chops where not effected by this IMO.

The Kukri used 44 power strokes to split the log in half. And yes I did have a BIG smile on my face while doing this.

Choptesttwo6.jpg


After chopping with the Kukri on an old stump I decided to get a higher stump and a better working platform for the testing of the knives. I wanted the log to be up where I could put the most power into it. The kukri is longer and working low with it is no problem.

Choptesttwo7.jpg


The HOFSH LE was up. I did not want to use the heaviest knife last and being confronted with questions like " you used the heavy knife last and maybe you where tired" LOL I DO NOT GET TIRED but anyway The Busse was up.

The HOFSH LE used 45 strokes to split the log in half, almost the same as the Kukri. For a short blade (8") it cuts deep. Note that I chop with the centre of the blade and not the front part.!!! The front part did not go as deep as the centre of the blade!!! I tested this theory many times. I chop very relaxed and maybe the weight from the handle can explain this.

Choptesttwo8.jpg


Choptesttwo9.jpg


The Trail Master was up.
Only 43 strokes to split the log!!! The precision of this knife is amazing it is very well balanced and even felt a bit to light but cuts deep enough. Not as deep as the Busse but almost. Check out the precession work clean cuts.

Choptesttwo11.jpg


Choptesttwo10.jpg


After this I was a bit puzzled!! And gave the HOFSH LE another go 49 strokes dam - the log got thinner after this point but I gave it another try 34 strokes. Then I used the Trailmaster again 23 strokes. The log was a bit thinner but not much thinner then the part that the HOFSH LE used 34 strokes to split.
The Kukri was up on the work bench 19 strokes what a chopping machine and what great hour in the forest.

The most impressive part of the test was that after limbing and chopping with the Trail Master It could still shave hair !!!! not so that they popped of like before I started but it could still shave!!! WOW that is crazy after such hard strokes.

Non of the knives had any damage on the edges. Remember the HOFSH LE that got small deformations on the factory edge? I sharpened the HOFSH LE before the test with a Translucent Arkansas stone and polished the edge with an even finer stone. Seems like a finer edge on the INFI steel is the way to go. I might even make it a bit thinner and see how that turns out.

Cheers,

André

PS I will go out again tomorrow, what tests should I perform?

Choptesttwo12.jpg
 
Today I was splitting some wood to see how the knife performed in this task. I chopped all the logs with the knife about 30 min of work and forced the knife through the wood by hidding the wood on a stub ot batoning the knife through.
The knife performed very well and there was no deformations on the edge.
I think the new edge I gave the knife works better then the factory edge.
The knife was still sharp after the test and it only took 3 min on the ceramic rods to get the knife shaving sharp.

Cheers,

André

HOFSHLEspilttingwood.jpg
 
Like you I do not care about one company more then the other and I do not care about the fact that the Busse in more expensive then the Cold Steel. I just want to see what knife did best. I am not completly done with my test and are still learning things about the INFI steel. Seems like good steel so fare.

Cheers,

André
 
I guess this just goes to show how individual knife performance is regardless of steel performance, namely because I couldn't chop a 4 inch live tree down with a trailmaster before I started getting blisters all over my hand from the handle (it was too skinny for me to get a good grip). Because the grip was too thin I also had issues maintaining accurate hits, so I gave up on that knife and gave it away to a friend.

Edit: Speaking of handles, my memory may be bad but I don't remember my trailmaster's handle looking nearly as large as yours is, does anyone know if they finally changed that major (IMO) design flaw?
 
huugh said:
D2? Why? Not the best for fixed blade imho. Good enough for a folder

D2 is just fine for fixed blades, check out some of the knives by Israeli knifemaker Meir Aziz (Aziz cut a military ammo can in half with a D2 blade), or Scott Gossman of Razorback Knives Buffalo Blade that Ron Hood tested.
 
I got axes and Stihl chain saws:D

Yoda
Edit: Speaking of handles, my memory may be bad but I don't remember my trailmaster's handle looking nearly as large as yours is, does anyone know if they finally changed that major (IMO) design flaw?

The handle on all my trail Masters are tha same.;)

Cheers,

André

ColdSteelCollection8.jpg


ColdSteelCollection7.jpg
 
The Last Confederate said:
D2 is just fine for fixed blades, check out some of the knives by Israeli knifemaker Meir Aziz (Aziz cut a military ammo can in half with a D2 blade), or Scott Gossman of Razorback Knives Buffalo Blade that Ron Hood tested.
:) Look here:
http://knife.cz/recenze/recenzedetail.aspx?id=40
http://knife.cz/diskuze/philboard_read.asp?id=1315&recordnum=40
http://knife.cz/diskuze/philboard_read.asp?id=1315&recordnum=20

It is knife from Czech maker made from D2. Yes it can be "tough" but I wouldn't take it for big fixed blade.
I thought you are going to mention some big advantages (or properties you like) of D2 over other steels if two best carbon steels are D2 and D2. :p
 
Andre/500 Jeffs -

Great pictures and report. Thanks for posting them. Next time one of the black cherry trees in my back yard decides to shed a big limb I know who to call, heh heh!

If you like good, reasonably priced, very sharp convex ground, A2 tool steel blades then I'd take a look at the Bark River line of knives. They are way too sharp for a new user I would caution. I would only buy one with a blade guard. They are geared towards hunters, campers, etc.

As far a wood gathering, I think that a folding bow saw is much easier to use and much less expensive and weighs alot less and is easier to carry. Now if we want to get serious out comes my Husqvarna!

I have the "Huntsman" model with A2 steel blade. It is not so big as these but it can gut and skin numerous deer before needing sharpening. This is the purpose for my carrying a knife.

http://www.barkriverknives.com/
 
Back
Top