2 respected Carbon Blade Steels

surfer · Jun 22, 2006

Does someone have an idea about the tang of the CS trailmaster?
I would like to know if there are sharp edges that could cause breaking, for example at the hilt.

thanks

surfer

500jefferyDK · Jun 22, 2006

Surfer

This is how a Trail Master look inside the handle.
I am working on this Cold Steel blade blank and making Rio grande Moran style blade.
Blade is 8" and 5/16" stock Carbon V

Cheers,

André

surfer · Jun 22, 2006

Thanks for your fast respond!!!

Daniel L · Jun 22, 2006

Great pics and review Jeffrey. Did you wear gloves during your chopping?

I am interested to hear your comparisons on chopping comfort - vibration, and abrasion from the handles.

I used to have the Cold Steel Kukri like yours, but the flat grind kept sticking in deep cuts. It's performance was far behing my Himalayan Imports WWII kukri (17.5" OAL) - if you want chopping power, you should look into a Himalayan Imports Ang Khola.

JD Mandrell · Jun 22, 2006

huugh said:
It is knife from Czech maker made from D2. Yes it can be "tough" but I wouldn't take it for big fixed blade.

Very nice knives, my compliments to whoever made them, since the pages were not in English, I am not sure who did, but nice knives anyway, and good examples of why D2 is great for fixed blades I guess it's a matter for personal choice, I like it but I also like A2 and am looking forward to my first O1 blade soon.

huugh said:
I thought you are going to mention some big advantages (or properties you like) of D2 over other steels if two best carbon steels are D2 and D2.

Sorry, I thought I was, but here are the reasons why I like D2.

1. Great strength
2. Fantastic edge holding
3. Good corrosion resistance, yet with enough time and use will develop a very slight greyish patina that gives it nice character.

huugh said:

huugh, that's the second time you've used the "sticking your tongue out" icon in this thread. maybe there is a cultural difference in it's use, but some folks might mistake it for deliberate rudeness or an attempt to start an argument. You might consider that before being so free with it?

500jefferyDK · Jun 22, 2006

Daniel L said:
Great pics and review Jeffrey. Did you wear gloves during your chopping?

I am interested to hear your comparisons on chopping comfort - vibration, and abrasion from the handles.

I used to have the Cold Steel Kukri like yours, but the flat grind kept sticking in deep cuts. It's performance was far behing my Himalayan Imports WWII kukri (17.5" OAL) - if you want chopping power, you should look into a Himalayan Imports Ang Khola.

I did wear gloves and wrote about it in the review

I am not looking for a BIG chopper but are looking into knives that can also chop and still be knives. The kukri was a wold card and not a fair contender in the test.
I want "the perfect" big knife that can also be used for jobs that would normaly require a small axe.
I normally bring a medium size axe but would like to bring only a large knife and a small one, 4-6" fixed or 3-4" folder.

Cheers,

André

500jefferyDK · Jun 22, 2006

I am always looking for the perfect 9-10" knife

And searching is half the fun

Cheers,

André

ghost squire · Jun 22, 2006

(Aziz cut a military ammo can in half with a D2 blade)

Big deal the stuff is only sheet metal. You can do that with a 1095 knife at 66 RC without it developing chips, and at that range 1095 is very brittle.

500jefferyDK, awesome test! Based on these results, would you say the khukri has any advantage over a trailmaster? I would have thought that if anything, chopping trees would be the khukuris advantage, but lo and behold!

Do you have a recon scout, and if so, how would you estimate it would compare at chopping logs?

500jefferyDK · Jun 22, 2006

The kukri is the best chopper of the tree knives no doubt.
However the kukri is not suited for normal knife chores that the two other knives would perform way better then the kukri.

I do own a Recon scout and think that it is a bit to small and light to be in the test. The recon scout is however a fine 7.5" blade. I just think that it has a stupid size

I would rather have a 4-5" knife and a 9-10" knife.
The original recon scout satin finish is a rare knife and not many want to part with it. The old satin run of CS knives are way better then the new black ones IMO.

Cheers,

André

JD Mandrell · Jun 22, 2006

ghost squire said:
Big deal the stuff is only sheet metal. You can do that with a 1095 knife at 66 RC without it developing chips, and at that range 1095 is very brittle.

Check out the July 2006 issue of Tactical Knives for the full torture test that was done on Aziz's D2 knife.

Then duplicate them with a 1095 knife and let me know how it goes.

Cliff Stamp · Jun 22, 2006

The Last Confederate said:
... check out some of the knives by Israeli knifemaker Meir Aziz (Aziz cut a military ammo can in half with a D2 blade), or Scott Gossman of Razorback Knives Buffalo Blade that Ron Hood tested.

Edge cross section for Aziz? Grossman's D2 are extremely thick and obtuse. Ref :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3186783&postcount=10

The profile he describes there is about twice as thick as my Bruks splitting maul let alone any of the tactical knives I own. It isn't any surprise it is durable.

-Cliff

JD Mandrell · Jun 22, 2006

Cliff Stamp said:
Grossman's D2 are extremely thick and obtuse. Ref :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3186783&postcount=10

The profile he describes there is about twice as thick as my Bruks splitting maul let alone any of the tactical knives I own. It isn't any surprise it is durable.

-Cliff

And yet they cut like a laser...he must be doing something right?

Have you seen Ron Hoods DVD testing the Buffalo Blade?

Cliff Stamp · Jun 22, 2006

The Last Confederate said:
And yet they cut like a laser...he must be doing something right?

Nothing ground similar to the above is going to cut well. Mike Swaim proved that a dozen years ago on rec.knives. The apex of the edge is over 31 degrees per side and there is little relief. It isn't surprising that it took little damage.

Have you seen Ron Hoods DVD testing the Buffalo Blade?

No. I did watch Fikes testing video and I would love to see a blade ground like the above attempt to duplicate any of the testing Fikes did aside from the barrel and concrete work.

The very first question you should ask whenever anyone makes claims about durability is - what is the edge angle/thickness. The next question is - which specific knives have you seen fail the same work.

-Cliff

JD Mandrell · Jun 22, 2006

Cliff Stamp said:
The very first question you should ask whenever anyone makes claims about durability is - what is the edge angle/thickness. The next question is - which specific knives have you seen fail the same work.

-Cliff

I don't have to ask, I know how well Scott's knives cut from direct experience and use of the ones I own.

It seems rather odd to me how often you jump in with comments like this whenever someone mentions Scott Gossman and his knives, but curiously enough nobody that actually uses them seems to agree with you.

Hmmm....

Cliff Stamp · Jun 22, 2006

The Last Confederate said:
I know how well Scott's knives cut from direct experience and use of the ones I own.

Do they have similar grinds? You really want to state publically that an edge which is 0.075" thick and ground at 31+ degrees per side cuts like a laser? What has likely happened is that the current knives have much thinner edges. It should be clear that that this also means that you can't expect the same level of durability obviously as what was shown with the origional massive profiles.

The Last Confederate said:
It seems rather odd to me how often you jump in with comments like this ...

It really seems odd to you that I would note that an edge which has that profile achieves durability by cross section rather than steel? You really don't recall in the past where I have discussed the effect of edge profile on durability/cutting ability? It is called being consistent. I would say the same if anyone used a knife of similar profile to promote the durability of any steel.

-Cliff

huugh · Jun 25, 2006

Something about D2 toughness

37cm overall length, 6mm thickness

hardheart · Jun 25, 2006

The Last Confederate said:
huugh, that's the second time you've used the "sticking your tongue out" icon in this thread. maybe there is a cultural difference in it's use, but some folks might mistake it for deliberate rudeness or an attempt to start an argument. You might consider that before being so free with it?

the eyes are raised up with a smile, and it's pink. I've always seen it as too playful to be provocative on its own.

ras · Jun 25, 2006

I'm always somewhat amused by guys who use "tough" to describe D2. Comparing it with S7 and other tool steels, it's near the bottom on the ole' toughness meter. OTOH, comparing it to stainless it's right there with 154CM and a bit below S30V.

It's a good blade steel because it has a good corrosion resistance, excellent wear resistance, while it has adequate toughness for many cutting applications. It's good for folders and small fixed blades such as those made by Dozier, but Dozier is making knives for slicing, not prying and chopping. Don't think for a second that he chose D2 for its toughness.

Everything is relative and heat treat rules, but the blade profile and grind are players too.

JD Spydo · Jun 28, 2006

500jefferyDK said:
Surfer

This is how a Trail Master look inside the handle.
I am working on this Cold Steel blade blank and making Rio grande Moran style blade.
Blade is 8" and 5/16" stock Carbon V

Cheers,

Hey Jeffrey where did you get that old Spyderco "Galley V" sharpener. That is one great sharpening system for big blades like bowies and so forth. You must have had that one for a while.

Also this is up for any one of you to answer. If I was to get a knife made by Busse with INFI steel>> Which model is closest to the Cold Steel "TRAILMASTER"? I would like to have a big, hard work bowie type knife with INFI steel in it. thanks for all the great feedback guys

Glenn Jones · Jun 28, 2006

Some time ago the Cold Steel Trail Master and the Busse Basic 9 were compared in depth. From memory, the Basic 9 came out to be the better chopper but both were regarded as excellent knives. The comparison should be in the archives somewhere. I have a copy saved on my computer. The Basic 9 is a longer knife than the Busse used here and was made out of modified INFI. Common sense tells me that the length of the knife is a major factor in chopping as well as the edge grind and steel used.