2020 prices

731Chopper

731Chopper

Joined
May 25, 2017
Messages
299
Has anyone heard or read anything about MAP discount amount changing for 2020?

I heard something about this a couple of weeks ago from a friend but haven’t seen anything in the forums yet which surprises me if it is true.
 
Sage 5 Lightweight is 70% of MSRP instead of usual 65%...I wonder if that's a hint for a production-wide 2020 price change.
 
The higher end Spydercos (looking at you Shaman) feel pricey enough as is. After watching some youtube reviewers vids after "Spydeypocalypse" it would seem any price increase for 2020 would be ill advised. But we are living in very interesting times so... ‍:confused:
 
From the Spyderco forum...

Hi Ramzar,

At this time, the plan is to try to set a 30% off MAP. It's still a nightmare scenario to try to please everyone on pricing. You kind understand and patience is appreciated.

sal
 
Please try to understand that prices go up when costs go up. Map is the result of trying to keep the distribution chain working. We believe that charging as much as the market will bear is biting the hand that feeds you so we always try to keep the prices as low as we can and still run a successful business. We want you to purchase our products and enjoy them. We hope that you feel you are getting good value for your hard earned money. None of us here are driving Ferrari's.

sal
 
I have to say as a broke college student who is relegated to the low-mid range end of things its becoming harder and harder to be a Spyderco fanatic. I love the blades but as things stand its very difficult to buy or suggest knives like the tenacious, delica, endura, or other similar knives to people. Especially given how many affordable mid-high end knives are coming out of China. I understand that I'm not the intended market disposable income wise but I think my perspective would be shared by a lot of people who aren't as into or are outside of the hobby. Of course i don't have the perspective from Sal or anyone else on the business end of thing but this is just my two cents.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Please try to understand that prices go up when costs go up. Map is the result of trying to keep the distribution chain working. We believe that charging as much as the market will bear is biting the hand that feeds you so we always try to keep the prices as low as we can and still run a successful business. We want you to purchase our products and enjoy them. We hope that you feel you are getting good value for your hard earned money. None of us here are driving Ferrari's.

sal
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I certainly do understand, I am a businessman myself. I’ve voiced my frustration with MAP policies before and another change to it in favor of the dealer I fear may be misguided in their effort to increase their margins as it will decrease volume. Although, maybe that is the intent.

The only reason I even care is because Spyderco is my favorite knife company so whenever I buy somebody a first pocket knife, it’s a Spyderco. Whenever somebody asks me for a good pocket knife recommendation, it’s a Spyderco. It’s becoming harder and harder to find a model that the average person who isn’t a pocket knife fanatic can afford.
 
731Chopper said:
I certainly do understand, I am a businessman myself. I’ve voiced my frustration with MAP policies before and another change to it in favor of the dealer I fear may be misguided in their effort to increase their margins as it will decrease volume. Although, maybe that is the intent.

The only reason I even care is because Spyderco is my favorite knife company so whenever I buy somebody a first pocket knife, it’s a Spyderco. Whenever somebody asks me for a good pocket knife recommendation, it’s a Spyderco. It’s becoming harder and harder to find a model that the average person who isn’t a pocket knife fanatic can afford.
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Who here honestly cannot afford a knife about the average cost of a Spyderco knife? One knife, not two or five or eighty-seven, but just one. It seems to me that about 99.99% of adults living in a first world country can swing it, and very few people need more than one. It then becomes a matter of choices--Spyderco knife or Benchmade or that flashlight or something else. If people are so close to the edge that they cannot afford their next meal, then there are probably more important things to address than can they buy a Spyderco knife.

When machines that help to make Spyderco knives require servicing, but that service is delayed to keep product costs down, there will be delays and unhappy customers. There may also be quality control issues. When people who work for Spyderco cannot afford to feed or clothe their families because pay is so low and all they have to do is go somewhere else to get a better paying job, some may leave. How will that effect the quality and availability of Spyderco knives? We all lose then.

Sal is great when it comes to interacting with customers and folks who are simply just interested in knives in general. I'm sure it can be exhausting even on the best of days to juggle everything--"You guys should make a ...", "There has been a delay with ...", "When will we see a ...?", "Your wife called while you were in a meeting and ...", etc., etc. I don't necessarily expect everyone to understand, but how about we all give it a break and try to have some faith that he is doing the best he can for everyone with what he has? Until we are walking in his shoes, I don't think we can fully appreciate everything he deals with even if we are small business owners ourselves. My .02.
 
Just because you have enough money for something doesn’t mean you can afford to buy it. Most people I know would never spend $100 on a pocket knife.

A change in MAP policy doesn’t affect the knife factory workers.

I sincerely appreciate Sal’s willingness to listen to the end user and come on these forums. He is one of the biggest reasons I love Spyderco so much. Discussing price isn’t a slight against Sal or his company. It’s just a discussion.
 
Messer Meister said:
Especially given how many affordable mid-high end knives are coming out of China.
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That is certainly its own problem. The Chinese have taken over quite a few industries in the past 2 decades. We had an audience with the House of Representatives a few years ago along with other US manufacturers that were being put out of business by the Chinese 12/1 currency difference. I guess we'll see where the future goes? We certainly don't want to make all of our products on China, but discussions like this one shows how difficult it can be.

sal
 
731Chopper said:
Just because you have enough money for something doesn’t mean you can afford to buy it. Most people I know would never spend $100 on a pocket knife.

I think I understand what you are getting at here, but again, I think it just comes down to individual choices about what the priority is given limited resources. I would never buy a cell phone for several hundred dollars or a costly usage plan, but many people do. Nor would I spend $40k on a new car. But, I have an expensive pair of Maui Jim sunglasses that many people would never dream of buying. I often carry and use a very expensive custom pocket knife that most people would never use even if they did buy one just like it for their collection. Different strokes for different folks.

A change in MAP policy doesn’t affect the knife factory workers.

Retailers have to compete in the market place and pay their employees enough to feed their families as well. Too, they are in fact an integral part of everyone's accessibility to Spyderco knives. Without them, Spyderco might be able to sell for less, but what would be the true cost of doing it that way?

I sincerely appreciate Sal’s willingness to listen to the end user and come on these forums. He is one of the biggest reasons I love Spyderco so much. Discussing price isn’t a slight against Sal or his company. It’s just a discussion.

For the record, I did not think you were really "slighting" Sal or Spyderco, though it could be taken as such. You were initially inquiring about a change in MAP, but then stated your concern regarding "another change to it in favor of the dealer I fear may be misguided in their effort to increase their margins as it will decrease volume." I was simply trying to point out that things happen for a reason and whether you or I think they are good or bad reasons, it is enough for me that Sal and company are doing their best to juggle everything. Is it perfect? No. Will it please everyone? No. Will worrying about it change anything? No. Will life, Spyderco, and the purchase of Spyderco knives continue forward? Yes. It's all good.
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I don’t mind paying more for sprint runs, and higher end models. As I like something unique. I would rather see more small sprint runs in the $150-$300 range.

However I would also like to see lower prices, cheaper steel on common designs. Lightweight models are a step in the right direction. Normal people don’t spend more than $50 on knife.

I have a few Chinese knives, need to try a spyderco made in China... China sprint run in a fun color might sway me.
 
I am not into spending over $200 on folders, and despite Spyderco offering some higher end models in the $400 range, I find that their value/price relationship is the best of any knife company out there. I mean, most ZTs approach $300, and I can get a PM2 for half of that, even a sprint run with a fancy steel when offered. Spyderco offers a wide range of lock types (the best in the business IMO), steels, and designs at reasonable prices. There are plenty of relatively inexpensive options with Spyderco, and nobody is complaining that Benchmade or Hinderer don't offer anything for the average person.
 
I have accumulated many knives. Even just the portion of Spyderco in my collection can perhaps last five generations of my offspring ;) So if the prices raise above my threshold of willingness to pay, I'd choose not to buy anymore. It is just as simple as that.

For the above poster saying everyone can afford buying one knife: do you honestly believe Spyderco thinks/hopes/expects every knife nut to buy only one knife (theirs or some other bands)?
 
sharp_edge said:
*snip*

For the above poster saying everyone can afford buying one knife: do you honestly believe Spyderco thinks/hopes/expects every knife nut to buy only one knife (theirs or some other bands)?
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I think you are referring to me. :)

I have no idea what Spyderco thinks about how many knives people should own and I was not trying to suggest that they have an opinion about that. What I did say was that most everyone can afford one if they want one badly enough, even with a price bump. I also said that I believe Sal is honestly doing the absolute best he can to balance many competing considerations in setting the prices on Spyderco knives, and that some of those considerations include his customers--what they like, what they would like to see, what they can afford, what they don't like, what they can legally carry, etc. Throw in fifty other things to think about and we might be getting closer to reality.
 
miltmaldo said:
Why can’t Spyderco do what ZT just did . Give the dealer a weekend to sell below MAP . I’ll buy a regular SHaman for $140 . Black Friday and cyber Monday came and went and I didn’t see a single Spyderco with a dissent discount.
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I’m a fan of both ZT and Spyderco. That’s the first time ZT has ever put ALL of its regular production models on sale. To me, it’s a sign of desperation that may indicate excess inventory at all levels. Their various recent Sprints have not been selling well and they have very few new knives. Since most of their line is titanium frame lock bearings flippers they have strong competition from top notch Chinese competitors like WE and Reate.

The affordability argument goes only so far. Street knife prices the past few years (2014 on) have become ridiculous with manufacturers increasing MSRP and decreasing the MAP discount off MSRP. ZT, Spyderco and Benchmade have all done it and now it’s almost yearly increases. Ultimately, people will just buy fewer knives. Some knives like the Japanese made Spydercos with VG-10 and G-10 were so expensive that Spyderco pretty much gave up on them and instead will make lightweight FRN versions of them at a substantial reduction in street price.

I remember one of my first top end Spydercos in September 2005 was the Military Model C36GPSE with G-10 Handle and ComboEdge S30V steel for $103.09 shipped (still works great)! Now, the PlainEdge C36GPE with G-10/S30V is $178.75 and I guess soon even higher with 30% MAP ($192.50)!
 
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Desperation or not, I always appreciate manufacturers giving customers some discounts during the holiday seasons. I do agree to the rest of what RamZar RamZar said above. The prices of knives are becoming ridiculous. Unless we agree that the living quality of most people has been deteriorating significantly, the knife price increase just does not match people's income increase. I mean, taking the above Millie as an example, how many people's income has nearly doubled over the past 14 years?
 
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