24 hours of Survival Food

[longbow50]

Well said. After 4-7 days your body adjusts to not eating. Come to think about it I am carrying and extra 15lbs of fuel on the waist line.

Skam

Me too, but ya gotta carry a carb of some kind. Eat that and the body will burn carbs till they're gone, then will start on the fat.

 

[echoscout]

Several Clif Bars

 

[nemoaz]

Not sure thats correct. Skam

Not correct. You are right, Skam, unless you are a diabetic or otherwise have a deficiency of insulin from a few rare but related metabolic issues. All these kook diets with their wackopseudoscience feed the sheeple with misinformation. The body burns carbs first, then fat. Protein cannot be efficiently burned and leads to ketoacidosis in the absence of large amounts of water.

This "need food" mindset should be confronted at every opportunity. Food is your LAST survival concern. The absolute last. The ignorant sheeple seem to share this almost universally, as evidenced by the Starvingman comments that I see here occasionally. I'm also reminded of a "I Should Not Be Alive Episode" where two granola cruncher environmentalist were lost in the rainforest. They had decided they were going to kill themselves with a pocket knife rather than spend a second night in the jungle without food. That's right. Two nights. They were two miles from their resort and were within hearing distance of the river that they should have known would take them home. Luckily they were rescued by a fisherman. In the interviews that followed the dramatization, they discussed their hunger and desperation and their suicide plans. That is pathetic. Almost laughable if it weren't so sad.

Carry food if you want. But the original post could be two weeks worth of food if properly rationed. Just be prepared to survive without it if you must. Survival begins between the ears.

 

[Bare Rib]

Not correct, Skam. You are right, unless you are a diabetic or otherwise have a deficiency of insulin from a few rare but related metabolic issues. All these kook diets with their wackopseudoscience feed the sheeple with misinformation. The body burns carbs first, then fat. Protein cannot be efficiently burned and leads to ketoacidosis in the absence of large amounts of water.

Just to clarify; you are agreeing that the human body burns muscle first then fat.

 

[Leanwolf]

SKAMMER, here is the original statement made by Nemoaz. Apparently you didn't read it. He said,...

"You can easily last a month or more with no food assuming you have water."

You then disputed my statement by saying, ...

"Not only has it been done. Its done in the millions throughout history and today. There are still entire regions of the world who go weeks without a basic meal.

Nazi concentration camps are well documented with starving prisoners for months."

"... weeks without a basic meal." does not mean ZERO FOOD, for 30 or 40 days, living under high stress situations. . It means millions may not have a "basic meal," but obviously millions still will have some food, albeit poor nutrition.

I'm very well aware that the Nazis starved the prisoners of their concentration camps. I've read a great deal about that atrocity, plus have talked to two survivors of Buchenwald about their horrible experiences. They received food at times, but it was of very, very poor nutritional value. Many starved to death, but the ones who were forced to work for the Nazis in physical labor, did have food, although often not enough to sustain them, so many, many died.

Today, millions of people in the world go for 30 or 40 or 50 days without one, single bit of food, ZERO calories, are under high stress, yet live???

Read Nemoaz's statement again. ZERO food, ZERO calories for a month or more. That's what my disagreement was based on.

L.W.



I don't think so.

 

[foxyrick]

With regards to burning muscle v. fat...

Fat burning is a slow process. Only a small amount can be catabolised within a given period. If you are fairly inactive, that's fine. The body will slowly use up fat reserves to supply glucose to the parts that need it. This is why normal diets can only burn around 2 pounds of fat per week. Your body cannot process it much faster than that.

However, if you are more active, as might be the case in a survival situation, not enough fat can be catabolised to provide sufficient energy quickly enough. That's when the body starts to use protein instead (I should say 'as well as'). Catabolising protein is less efficient; it provides less energy per unit mass than fat does and produces more byproducts. It can, however, be catabolised more rapidly than fat and thereby produces energy more quickly.

Unfortunately, this means you lose muscle mass and suffer the effects of the byproducts.

I'm a (highly) qualified fitness instructor and nutritionist, and have been into natural bodybuilding for about 20 years. The above comments have come from my initial training courses and from a lot of personal experience.

Everyone's body is a little different though, there are different metabolic types and different eating patterns. This can cause quite a lot of variation to the above, but it is still generally correct.

In a short-term situation, my concern would be keeping focussed on the situation, not being distracted by hunger pains or lowered energy levels interfering with brain functioning if I am actively using more fuel than I have. Even worse if it's very cold. Therefore, I eat.

I really think the important thing is to make survival more likely/easier, rather than just thinking that we can live without food for a month. I fully agree that we can. It boils down to the 'survival urge' or lack thereof in certain environmentalists with penknives.

Therefore, I always carry some high energy food in kits, even if it's just some boiled sweets or Kendal mint cake.

Just my observations, take them or leave them.

Rick.

 

[nemoaz]

Just to clarify; you are agreeing that the human body burns muscle first then fat.

NO. The body burns fat, then muscle in the absence of a metabolic disorder. This is Nutrition 101--so long as you are reading mainstream medical/nutrition texts. You know, the one's written by PhD's, RD's, or ND's. I am a former military special ops medic, Paramedic, and Emergency Nurse, with licenses (actually a license and a certification-both admittedly a little dusty now) to prove it, not that anyone really believes internet creds.

FWIW, I believe you (edit Foxyrick) regarding your training. It's sounds like gym nutrition 101. Do you also sell protein shakes at your gym? All the Atkins Diet/ Musclehead stuff is far from accepted science. You don't need two pounds of protein a day and, for that matter, even the average American's diet (not the average musclehead's) has excessive protein and leads to our high incidence of kidney disease. Frankly, keeping your six pack abs during a survival situation isn't really a concern anyway. Foxyrick, YOU may have such a low percentage of body fat that you will burn muscle first, but that doesn't apply to the majority of us slightly tubby 'Mericuns. You are probably also a low carb guy who is in ketosis every day of the year. Am I right?

Take my advice or leave it. Or just kill yourself on the second day rather than facing a second night without food. I'm a bit stunned that this is even being debated. Some of you internet commandos need some more training on the basics. For me, food will be the last survival priority, after shelter/fire, water, and signaling. I'll consider food later in the week once I start getting bored.

 

[nemoaz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw2iagS5ymQ

The first two minutes of this is on point. I'm assuming some of you will recognize Ron Hood. His forum at survival.com btw has a relatively high level of expertise and quality posts.

Food, a Lower Priority

Generally, food is not a survival priority. It is nowhere near as important as is water. In fact, it is such a low priority--and procuring it in the wild such a complicated subject (you could fill a library with books on the subject)--that we will just touch upon it. And, that only because most people consider it so very important, even though it is not. Some basic information will keep you out of trouble.

You can survive without food for weeks without permanent side effects. After the first day or two, which can be difficult psychologically and physically as your mind tries to "encourage" you to eat, your body and mind adjust and it is more easily tolerated. Food can be an asset, particularly in cold climates, and is good for morale; but be cautious and careful about obtaining it in the wild if you do not know how.

Always eat sparingly; you risk severe upset due to the unfamiliar foods. If you have little or no water, don't eat! It takes water for your body to digest and metabolize food. Don't eat unless you have at least two or more quarts of water available per day available.

Plants offer the most common and ready wild food source. Some basic rules to stay safe (there are always exceptions, but don't risk it unless you are positive): Avoid all plants with white sap, tiny hairs, umbrella shaped flowers and white or green berries. Red berries are less risky, but eat only if you recognize them as safe. Black or blue berries are generally safe. Aggregate berries, like raspberries, are always edible. Single fruits on a stem are generally safe. Avoid mushrooms and fungi, plants with bulb roots and fruits from plants with shiny leaves.

Source: http://www.equipped.com/primer.htm

Chapter 8 Food Procurement

One of man's most urgent requirements is food. In contemplating virtually any hypothetical survival situation, the mind immediately turns to thoughts of food. Unless the situation occurs in an arid environment, even water, which is more important to maintaining body functions, will usually follow food in our initial thoughts. The survivor must remember that the three essentials of survival—water, food, and shelter—are prioritized according to the estimate of the actual situation. This estimate must not only be timely but accurate as well. We can live for weeks without food but it may take days or weeks to determine what is safe to eat and to trap animals in the area. Therefore, you need to begin food gathering in the earliest stages of survival as your endurance will decrease daily. Some situations may well dictate that shelter precede both food and water.

Source: http://www.equipped.com/fm3-0570.htm

Nice point that you may need to start incorporating a few plant edibility tests if you are in unfamiliar territory. Common in the military. Not so common with us, I would think.

This has developed into a bit of a pissing battle, so I've posted all that I'm going to. My apologies if anyone was offended.

 

[skammer]

I don't think so.

I know, you do your research and then get back.

Skam

 

[powernoodle]

Mrs. Powernoodle and I have been losing weight (on purpose) over the past several months. Considering that the fat is obviously disappearing, and the muscle is not obviously disappearing, its rather clear we are losing mostly (or exclusively) fat.

It may be true - I do not know - that one also consumes muscle in addition to fat under certain circumstances such as starvation coupled with physical activity and stress. No question that muscle can be consumed.

But the broad statement that one's body consumes muscle and then fat is demonstrably untrue.

:thumbup:

 

[foxyrick]

But the broad statement that one's body consumes muscle and then fat is demonstrably untrue.

:thumbup:

Agreed, definately. The body will use fat, first, and up to its maximum conversion rate. Only when the required energy cannot be maintained by fat burning alone will muscle be used. Fat will still be used even then.

Rick.

 

[Leanwolf]

SKAMMER - "I know, you [Leanwolf] do your research and then get back."

So your research tells you that a person can go for 30, 40, 50 days with ZERO food, ZERO calories, and ZERO nutrition, in a high stress survival situation ... and survive.

Okay, believe whatever you want. More power to the people who can do it. Sounds like fun.

L.W.

 

[EmsRescueGuy]

In my day hike bag I always carry enough food to last 24 hours. Assuming I get stuck on the trail for some reason and have to spend the night and walk out the next day. I always carry 2 quarts of water in nalgene bottles. Here are my food items.
1 packet of Gator Aid powder
2 tea bags
2 instant coffee packets
2 2oz. bags of Sam's Mountain Trail Mix.
1 foil pack of Tuna
1 foil pack of Uncle Ben' Ready Rice
2 packs of snack crackers
2 packs of Instant oatmeal
McD's salt and pepper packets.
2 sugar packets
Some Jolly Ranchers

Lets hear from you on what you carry.

This seems a bit excessive for a day hike, It could probably last a week or more with rationing.

As a diabetic I know that low blood sugar makes me stupid in a hurry, so food is part of any PSK for me. I usually carry

1-2 Cliff Bars
1-packet of gatorade
2-3 tea bags
1-2 coffee packets
2-bullion packets
1-cup O soup packet
3 sugar packets

I also usually throw a bag or two of trailmix in my daypack or pockets For energy on the trail.

I have gone for 24 hours or more on just trail mix, water and tea on SAR exercises, Not because I diddnt have other food but because this was easier since we were on the move so much.