2nd steel in a 52100 dammy mix?

butcher_block

butcher_block

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Dec 6, 2004
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so i will soon have a bunch of 52100 parts i plan on doing them in a can weld
so what other steel would work well or what power should i look for to back fill the can

contrast would be nice but im more worried about what i can use that's close in heat treat
thanks
 
Ray Kirk uses 15n20 with his 52100 in his damascus mix. i think the contrast is very good on his steel. Gary Mulkey has used quite a bit of it. Mike
 
You could use 1002 ultra low carbon enameling steel and still have over 0.50% carbon.

Go for contrast!!!

Of course there is an unlimited supply of 4130 and 4140 here you can use....
 
going to try and keep it on the higher side as i think i will be making kitchen knives out of at least some of it

tho i might make a can of lower to make other stuff with 1008 adn soem nickel would give lots of contrast

also maybe you would wantot work with that .50%
got to see what the heat treat on that 4140 is and how it etches (cant remember anymore about the dekers cans he made with it
 
If you're going with a powder, I'd shoot for 4600KC or 4800KC for contrast. The HT for 52100 is likely to change dramatically when you go forge welding it up. The carbon diffusion will lower the overall carbon content somewhat. Actually this will hopefully make things easier on you if you plan your proportions right. If you aim to hit around the eutectoid point, I think you'll be in better shape HT-wise.

This does of course raise an interesting question for me though. I know when I asked Kevin about this in his hypereutectoid thread this was the case, but we were talking about 1095 there, not something as highly alloyed as 52100. I know that the carbon should diffuse, but I'm assuming that the varying alloying elements won't. In this case, what is the resulting material likely to be like? Since you have the Cr that will want to make carbides (right?) what will the effect of that be on the sections of 52100 after carbon diffusion occurs?

Kevin? Mete? Bueller?

-d
 
If I am not mistaken and I am not the 4600kc and 4800kc have hade about .8% carbon added to them as opposed to 4600 and 4800 powder with no carbon. so you shouldn't get too much carbon diffusion using the kc powder.
 
The problem with 52100 and 5160 for contrast is the damned chrome (aside from 5160 damascus just being ugly), it will want to stay in the range if lighter gray, making it hard to contrast against black or silver if you want a stark difference. Do be careful though since 52100 is notorious for tearing itself apart in the quench when paired with a very disimilar steel. I am not talking about delamination, I am talking about the 52100 splitting right down the middle and the billet self destructing. This is overcome with more folding but is very common with coarse layering or san mai. Thus I may be tempted to do the math on the carbon levels and see ifyou can add a lower carbon (lower that 1% carbon NOT LOW CARBON) steel that could turn that 52100 more into 5285 or 5290.
 
perhaps i should add more to this
i am having some 52100 blanks done and wanted to take the webbing thats left and do a can weld

i dont really want to have weld boundary all over the place so i was hoping ot back fill and smash

big contrast not a huge deal just some color change would be nice
i would be making kitchen knives out of it and working hardness i would be shooting for is 61-62
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
The problem with 52100 and 5160 for contrast is the damned chrome (aside from 5160 damascus just being ugly), it will want to stay in the range if lighter gray, making it hard to contrast against black or silver if you want a stark difference. Do be careful though since 52100 is notorious for tearing itself apart in the quench when paired with a very disimilar steel. I am not talking about delamination, I am talking about the 52100 splitting right down the middle and the billet self destructing. This is overcome with more folding but is very common with coarse layering or san mai. Thus I may be tempted to do the math on the carbon levels and see ifyou can add a lower carbon (lower that 1% carbon NOT LOW CARBON) steel that could turn that 52100 more into 5285 or 5290.
Click to expand...

So this would seem to bolster the choice of 4600KC/4800KC. That's good news. What about my question of carbides though? I'm pretty sure I don't understand the nuances of having all the Cr in the 52100.

I guess what I'm asking is "would you end up with carbon being eaten by the Cr carbides in the 52100 sections?". If so, what would the overall effect be? Would you have your 52100 sections significantly more wear resistant than the rest? If so, at what cost? Not as much of an issue for Butch's kitchen knives as his straight razors, but an interesting question none the less...

-d
 
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