2x72 Belt Grinder Advice - specific models

MadmanR1

MadmanR1

Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
216
Hi,

I think I've exhausted the internet on this topic reading everything available and I still can't make a clear decision what to buy. I'm looking for anyone with some experience with these to sway me. I'll take anything- pro's, con's, future proofing, looks, whatever. If there is a model I haven't considered I'm open to that as well.

Here is where I'm at - my opinions are irrelevant because they are based solely on pictures and the quality of marketing.

All come with the 1.5-2hp motor and Kbac27 and the prices are from the manufacturers websites (no third party sellers). Don't feel like parting something together so I've only been looking at complete packages - I have enough projects going I don't need another.

I couldn't get shipping cost for some of these, I assume it'll be $150 or so.

1. Esteem
base price: $1,650
8" wheel
Platen: extra $235
shipping: ???
powder coated blue
total with platen minus ship: $1,885
2. KMG
base price: $2,178
8" wheel
Platen: $212
shipping: ???
appears to be uncoated
total with platen minus ship: $2,390
3. Pheer 454
base price: $1,785
8" wheel
Platen: included
shipping: ???
4. AMK-77
base price: $1799
10" serrated
Platen: included
shipping: FREE
powder coated
5. Northridge Mod2
base price: $1,699
no wheel
Platen: included
shipping: $150
powder coated


Similar but different, price range isn't too different but every couple hundred bucks is money that could be spent on small wheel attachments or other stuff. I'm looking for any opinions you guys might have. The one that looks nicest in videos is the NRT - but it's so new there isn't a lot of feedback on them. There is almost none from people that do this for a living and those are probably the people that know best. And when I say "looks nicest" that's really what I mean, as I have no personal experience to know what to look for.

Thanks!!
 
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Here's a link to a thread I started a few months ago that hashed out 4 of the 5 models you have listed, the Pheer, Esteem, AMK, and Northridge. I started out thinking I would go with the AMK and by the end of the thread, decided to purchase an Esteem. Its a lengthy thread, but its worth the read. The second link contains the build pictures for the Esteem that I'd ordered. It comes shipped in about 5 boxes to save on shipping...all told, with the tilt base it ways about 180 pounds give or take. Took about 2 hours to assemble with a cigar in one hand and an adult beverage in the other. :rolleyes: Brett Matthews, the owner/builder of Esteem Grinders is absolutely great to work with.

The great grinder debate

Esteem Grinder Assembly Photos
 
what about the KMG -pl package ? $1,376 from beaumont metal works. i would consider it unless you need a vfd.
 
another to consider is Wilmont (http://www.wilmontgrinders.com/Pages/LBGrinder.aspx). Chris' basic model, LB1000 without motor, is about $800. It is direct drive, so any 56C or 143TC will bolt on. His other model, Triple Arm Grinder, has all the bells and whistles one could want. Features both grinders share that I consider important: direct drive with C face motors. both platen arm and tool support arm are 1 1/2" square so any arm based on 1 1/2" square will fit. platen arm and tooling arm are adjustable, so you can use other size belts than 2x72.
KB Controls makes a good inverter/VFD, but so does Allen Bradley, Fuji, Siemens, Leeson......
scott
 
if money isn't a concern, why not consider the TW-90 and the Hardcore billet grinder?
Both much more $ but I've never heard anyone say weren't happy with their TW-90 or Hardcore.

But from your list, I have an Esteem and it's a fine grinder.

If I could do it all over again, I would get the TW-90
and am actually thinking about doing it next year,
 
I found a smoking deal on a Baldor 2HP motor on eBay, got a Pheer without a motor. Jose hooked me up. I like the set up a lot. Stayed within my budget. I made ridiculous offers using the "Make An Offer" button on a bunch of 1.5 and 2 hp 3 phase Baldors over the course of a week. Didn't think it'd work one as everyone declined the offers within a few hours. One guy said OK + free shipping. Total SCORE! Used the money I saved on the motor to get a small wheel attachment. Put it together myself, wired it up, learned how the thing worked. Bam. I'm in business. Good luck!
 
IIRC, Travis Wuertz lives in AZ. Might be able to save on the shipping charges and actually see/use the grinder before you buy. They are a bit on the pricier side though, and just as an aside, any of the other grinders you listed will still be significantly cheaper including the shipping costs.
 
I LOVE my ESTEEM!!! best price to quality i found and it runs smooth as a freaking cadillac i got the all the bells and whistles (horizontal too) for 2500 delivered.
 
After closely following Tony's thread, I went with the esteem too. I like the bader style small wheel set up which allows for using the entire length of the wheel. Just one of many small details that I like, but I do have to say it's the only 2x72 I have used.
 
I can tell you that Tony's thread is worth a read. If you are price conscious at all, which I think you are, you really can narrow it down to the Esteem, the AMK and the base model North Ridge--I can also tell you that you will want to spend the extra for the next level tool rest on the North Ridge--it goes from a seriously basic tool rest to one that is awesome.
I'd give Tony's thread a read!
 
TonyRV2 said:
Here's a link to a thread I started a few months ago that hashed out 4 of the 5 models you have listed, the Pheer, Esteem, AMK, and Northridge. I started out thinking I would go with the AMK and by the end of the thread, decided to purchase an Esteem. Its a lengthy thread, but its worth the read. The second link contains the build pictures for the Esteem that I'd ordered. It comes shipped in about 5 boxes to save on shipping...all told, with the tilt base it ways about 180 pounds give or take. Took about 2 hours to assemble with a cigar in one hand and an adult beverage in the other. :rolleyes: Brett Matthews, the owner/builder of Esteem Grinders is absolutely great to work with.

The great grinder debate

Esteem Grinder Assembly Photos
Click to expand...

Thanks Tony. I had read those threads early in my search and they helped significantly....helped me agonize longer over the decision that is. You've inadvertently done an amazing job marketing the Esteem, they should give you some free shirts or something. It's mostly because of you it was at the top of my list, and it still is at this point.

To the other comments - here is my uneducated opinions:

The KMG once optioned up starts looking pricy and it doesn't appear to offer differences from its competitors that justify that cost. In my research it looks like most piece together their own kits with a base KMG and I basically ignored that aspect in my comparisons.

The Northridge just "looks" amazing. If I didn't have you guys I would've bought it already. I read some comments on another forum from a knifemaker that brought up concerns about it's design. I still believe it's machined to perfection, but the design comments worry me. Since I don't know, I have to weigh them considerably.

The TW-90 was investigated and looks amazing. I could drive down and pick up in person in about 45 minutes. It may be great, but it is significantly more expensive. As a hobbyist I can't see spending that much. I'm usually a 'buy once cry once kind of guy' but I think I'd need quite a bit of convincing the investment is worth it long term.

The AMK looks slick, but they certainly don't make swapping the small wheel attachment in their video look easy. They might consider re-filming that bit. I worry about the proprietary system instead of standard tooling arms. I'd personally like to see videos of a dirty one in the shop of well renown knifemakers while they are touting it's benefits. Then again, it might appear like they are just shills and doing so for a free grinder.
 
You can become paralyzed sometimes with having so many choices. I recall some guys that have made knives for years saying that at one time there were perhaps 2 or 3 "knife grinders" available to choose from. Do keep one thing in mind though. Of all the models that have been brought up in my old thread and this one, there's someone that owns that model and is happy with it and happy with the company/builder that stands behind it. In other words, ALL of these models will be quite capable of grinding a knife. You just have to decide what important to you. For me, in the end, it came down to just a few things. I felt that the weight (mass) was important. More mass, less vibration, all other things being equal. A motor/vfd combination that were known quantities....Leeson or Baldor with a KBD drive seemed most desirable. I'd decided that a machine with tooling arms was important to me for added versatility. Finally, I wanted to deal with a company/builder with a known history and reputation. Naturally, I'd also wanted to get the biggest bang for the buck as well. These are the things that drove my decision. You have to decide what's most important for you, forge ahead, and don't look back, because in the final analysis, they'll all grind knives.
 
I have a kmg and a tw-90 grinder, both are well made machines. However, the tw-90 cost more because it offers so much more that is already included. It comes with easy horizontal flipping, the double end small wheel holder and tooling arm, your choice of wheel size for a slight added charge(bigger is better imo), flat platen with rubber wheels that can be used for grinding. The belt change system alone makes the cost worth while, it saves so very much time and your belt is never loose. You also have the ability to add the surface grinding attachment which is invaluable for folders. I plan on adding another tw-90 to my shop in near future.
 
MadmanR1 said:
Thanks Tony. I had read those threads early in my search and they helped significantly....helped me agonize longer over the decision that is. You've inadvertently done an amazing job marketing the Esteem, they should give you some free shirts or something. It's mostly because of you it was at the top of my list, and it still is at this point.
Click to expand...

you didn't mention your backround and if you can easily adapt what you buy. my LB1000 has a small base plate, but it took 10 minutes to bolt it to a piece of 2" hard maple work top. as a hobbyist, a $1500 Wilmont or Pheer or Oregon Blade Maker, may be all you need for a long time. As i said before, find a grinder that is direct drive. It takes me 10 minutes to change motors and drive wheel, from an 800 rpm Leeson with 3" wheel to a 1720 rpm Leeson with 4" wheel to a 3450 rpm Leeson with 5" wheel.
scott
 
In case there are any other guys doing research and stumble upon this thread I figured I'd update. I contacted the last two finalists, of those I was left with a very positive feeling after talking to Brett Mathews at Esteem. We must have talked for 45 minutes on the phone (although around half of that was about knife making and the other half hunting). I placed an order with Esteem, and Brett actually talked me into spending LESS money than I intended. Now I wait.
 
MadmanR1 said:
In case there are any other guys doing research and stumble upon this thread I figured I'd update. I contacted the last two finalists, of those I was left with a very positive feeling after talking to Brett Mathews at Esteem. We must have talked for 45 minutes on the phone (although around half of that was about knife making and the other half hunting). I placed an order with Esteem, and Brett actually talked me into spending LESS money than I intended. Now I wait.
Click to expand...
Good choice and congratulations on the new grinder. It is a great machine.
 
Congratulations on making your decision. You're going to enjoy grinding knives on that machine.
 
AMK here. It works very well. I didn't get the small wheel or the hollow grind adapter. I have a 1x42 that fills the gap for finger grooves and such. The AMK was fairly priced and plug and play ready. Smooth, quiet and with plenty of power. No regrets. I may get a second one. It is the most used machine in the shop
 
Pheer 454 here, its a damm good grinder. I talked to him a bunch through the order and he hooked me up. I have no regrets I have had it for about 7 months now and have had no problems. If you consider one of his grinders make sure you get a glass platen with it and dont wait like I did for 3 months to put it on. Ive got a 1.5HP motor with the VFD running on 110v. Works on a 15 amp fuse. Id write more but im at work.
 
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