3 New Knives Today....

TripleB67

TripleB67

Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Messages
183
After receiving a Kershaw Cryo from a generous board member I decided to take $60 and purchase three knives that were a bit different from one another while also getting as good of quality as possible for the price. I ended up with an Ontario Rat II, a Byrd Robin II FRN, and a CRKT Pazoda II...see picture of the three with my Cryo.

First let me say that I'm truly amazed at the quality and sharpness of each of these knives....especially getting all three of them for under $60. If I can get this good of quality for an average of $20 a piece I cannot wait to see the quality and smoothness of an $80 knife.

First impressions of each (and please realize these thoughts are coming from someone who is just now learning what quality knives are):

CRKT Pazoda II: obviously smaller than the other two but is probably the perfect size for me to discreetly carry a knife at work; super smooth opening and a breeze to close; very sharp; the oval hole works well, even for my larger hands, and I'm able to get it fully open every time (probably due to its smaller size); looks are fantastic but I can already tell the metal handle is going to get scratched pretty easily; it does allow deep pocket carry but doesn't quite disappear completely like I was hoping; the look of the darker colored blade is stunning on this knife; blade is dead centered; really impressive knife for $13

Byrd Robin II FRN: overall this is probably my least favorite of the three so far; it seems so much wider than the other two, but I assume it has to be because of the holes for opening; I have more trouble getting this one fully open with one move than I do the other two...maybe just a little higher learning curve, but it seems to be more stiff when trying to open it compared to the other two and a little 'rougher' on the thumb; I really like the back lock, probably because the two knives I carried prior to the Cryo had this same type of lock; super sharp out of the box; the blade on this one is the only one that has a good amount of side to side 'play', which make it seem 'cheaper' to me; clip is great on it and I like the fact it can be placed on all four ends of the knife, but if I were trying to be somewhat discreet with this knife the silver clip would keep me from doing so; great size as far as length opened and closed goes...probably the size I'll look for when I go up in quality

Rat II: everything you all said about the quality of the Rat II is spot on; this knife is so silky smooth to open, one motion and it is opened and locked; seems like the perfect weight and balance for EDC as well; where the thumbstuds on my Cryo seem to be just a bit too close to the handle the ones on the Rat II seemed to be in the perfect spot; the only knock I have, at least from a first impression, is it's a bit tougher for me to close than the other two knives...compared to the Pazoda II it takes just a little more effort to get my thumb/finger down in there to move the liner lock; it, like the other two, is super sharp out of the box; I like the four positions for the clip and I like the fact the clip is black

I'm definitely going to use these for a good while trying to decide what size, color, opening, style, etc. I prefer, but if I had to put down $80 today on a higher quality knife, I'd probably look at something very much like the Rat II that has a 2.5" blade and allows for deep carry.

Sorry for the length of this post, and looking back on it I'm not sure what my intent is with the post, other than to share my excitement over finally getting in some quality knives after 35 years of not so good quality knives.

Whatever the reason, I appreciate you taking the time to read this and for all your input along the in helping me decided what knives I should try - you all definitely led me in the right direction with all three of these!!

TripleB67

Knives Feb 2016.jpg
 
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Congrats on the new knives and thx for the write up. I was in your situation not that long ago, almost 30 and just getting my first quality pocket knife. I'm really happy I did because I couldn't imagine not carrying a knife daily now.

You seem to have a good approach on starting out and figuring out your likes and dislikes.
 
Very nice!
My Kershaw is extremely sharp. I was surprised by that when I opened the box!
 
Awesome.
I love that it's 100% genuine and an unbiased view of all 3, no adament hate or love towards one brand over the other due to past experience and/or what you read on the internet and think it's what you "should" say...

Cut some stuff... Cut more stuff... And definitely keep us posted on how you plan to move forward when you do.
 
There is a cheaper way than spending another $80 in the blind: you're already happy with the Rat 2, so have it ground down to 2.5". You'll get a better handle in the process, but that's my prejudice--I like longer handles with shorter blades, even if it isn't size-efficient. Having it reground probably won't cost you more than you've already spent on the Rat itself.

As to the Robin's clip, get some 3M tread tape. It'll darken the clip and add texture. Otherwise take the clip off and either darken it with ferric chloride, or leave the clip off and just drop it in the bottom of the pocket. Run a short lanyard off of it and you'll always be able to locate it, and being a lockback it's perfectly safe for such carry. (Actually the tread tape or ferric chloride ideas will improve nearly any clip--the paint on them tends to rub off, and the RAT has a white logo on the clip that makes it less low-profile than it could be.)
 
Cool, it's good to see you enjoying and forming opinions about each different knife. I've found when evaluating a new knife, it really takes about a week of daily carry to get a good sense for it. Try to incorporate all types of use; cut cardboard, paper, tape, whittle a stick, cut up an apple. Knives are made to cut and until you actually spend some time cutting with them, it's hard for their attributes and personalities to come through.

I want to caution you on a statement you made:
TripleB67 said:
If I can get this good of quality for an average of $20 a piece I cannot wait to see the quality and smoothness of an $80 knife.
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Sadly, an $80 knife won't be four times better than a $20 knife. Knife performance and quality are typically a case of diminishing returns. The higher the price, the less of a step up from a cheaper knife. It sucks but it's the sad reality that comes with spending more on knives. I just wanted you to be prepared and avoid a disappointment when more expensive knives may not seem to be "worth it" at first look.

In terms of knives with holes, you really can't evaluate that method of deployment until you've tried the Spyderco round hole. The performance is significantly different than oval holes or other shapes like the Byrd birds eye. I feel the same way about many Spydercos as you feel about your Byrd; they're prone to feeling fat in the pocket for the amount of usable blade. Some models retain a sleek profile. I'm currently madly in love with a Chaparral I picked up here on the Exchange and it might be an interesting option for you. Natives are also fairly low profile.

Anywho, enjoy the knives and have fun! Please feel free to keep the questions coming. It's been kind of fun to watch you on your journey into Knife Knuthood.
 
Hackenslash said:
Try to incorporate all types of use; cut cardboard, paper, tape, whittle a stick, cut up an apple. Knives are made to cut and until you actually spend some time cutting with them, it's hard for their attributes and personalities to come through.

Sadly, an $80 knife won't be four times better than a $20 knife. I just wanted you to be prepared and avoid a disappointment when more expensive knives may not seem to be "worth it" at first look.

In terms of knives with holes, you really can't evaluate that method of deployment until you've tried the Spyderco round hole. I'm currently madly in love with a Chaparral I picked up here on the Exchange and it might be an interesting option for you. Natives are also fairly low profile.

Anywho, enjoy the knives and have fun! Please feel free to keep the questions coming. It's been kind of fun to watch you on your journey into Knife Knuthood.
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Thanks...I plan to do a good deal of that throughout this week! Yea, definitely don't want to have my opinion of a knife to be set in stone before I run it through many different types of tasks.

Thanks for the information on the quality of a knife and how it relates to the cost. Once I start looking at the more expensive knives I'll definitely have to weigh the cost vs. needs aspects of it.

I appreciate the comments on the round hole Spyderco and not giving up on that type of deployment. Funny thing is, even after using them some today, I really like the oval hole on the Pazoda II. It's not as large as the hole on the Robin II so it doesn't seem to 'dig' into my thumb quite as much...but even though it's smaller I have no problem opening the knife with it. Glad to hear that about the Chaparral...I've heard a lot of great things about it and once I go more expensive it's one of the knives I want to take a close look at (as well as the Native 5 and the Benchmade Mini Griptillian (like the drop point and sheepsfoot blade too).

Thanks....it's been a blast for me as well!!!

TripleB67
 
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After spending a good amount of time with the three knives this afternoon and putting them through some cutting activities ("making a mess" my wife called it), here are a couple more thoughts:

Robin II: definitely the sharpest of the three out of the box...it easily handled every type of cutting I threw at it: thin, thick, delicate, speed work, precision, etc.; opening it doesn't seem so tough today (I guess just a little bit of a learning curve with the holes)...I get it fully open consistently and no more harsh feeling on the thumb; liking the back lock release, makes it extremely easy to close with one hand; the silver clip still bugs me and the knife seems very wide to be so short

Rat II: I was surprised that this knife wasn't sharper than it is out of the box...where the Robin II cut curves in a piece of poster board silky smooth, the Rat II wanted to tear the poster board when I tried to make a sharp curved cut; still loving the thumbstud deployment on this...perfect placing of the thumbstuds; the handle seems a little too smooth for my liking, especially comparing it side by side the Robin II; the opening is the smoothest of the bunch...feels like the blade it oiled up when opening it

Pazoda II: my initial love for this knife has waned some since first using it; the handle is pretty slick and will definitely get scratched easily; when putting it through the same cuts as the other two knives it's sharpness out of the box is nowhere close to the others; I thought with it being the smaller of the three precision cuts might be its specialty but the other two were much better for that task; I do still like the deep carry clip (maybe a little long but nice) and opening it is still a breeze

If I had to pick a favorite now it would be tough call....it seems to change as I spend more time with them as well as what they are being asked to do

Well, that's it for now...just thought I'd give a quick update.

TripleB67
 
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My goodness. Far to long and way too much bold. I hope what you said was that you like your new knife!
 
craytab said:
My goodness. Far to long and way too much bold. I hope what you said was that you like your new knife!
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Sorry, the boldness is fixed, the length...well, not so much!

Yep, that's basically what I said :thumbup:

TripleB67
 
Fwiw, while an $80-$100 knife won't necessarily cut 4x as good, it very well will cut all but twice as good as a $20-$25 one with a better Steel option, and will in many cases have twice as good fit, finish, action, and detail work, with more exotic materials and designs... So definitely IMHO, well worth justifying the price once you narrow down what it is you prefer.

I actually self imposed a $100 (ish) limit on individual knife purchases for the past few years, and there are plenty of solid choices out there in that range. (I also bought plenty of cheaper ones along the way as well, always got my eye out for nice sales and such).

That said, again IMHO, the point of truly diminishing returns becomes more prevalent when you start crossing into the $200 range, and more so as you start pushing closer to and above $300 price tag.
 
strategy9 said:
So definitely IMHO, well worth justifying the price once you narrow down what it is you prefer.
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After carrying the Rat II, Cryo, Robin II, and Pazoda II I've decided several things:
- whatever I eventually choose for a higher quality EDC I'll be carrying it in my pocket (with the clip on) during work and then use the clip when I'm not at work...I can get by without my phone at work, when away from work I'll have my phone in that pocket
- my preferred weight is 3.0 ounce or less
- my preferred closed length is 3.6 inches or less
- I get the Rat II (with the thumbstuds) open fully more consistently than the Robin II, but I like opening knives better with the hole and the Robin is much easier to close one handed
- like the feel of the handle on the Robin II better than and of the other handles
- Robin II is definitely the sharpest of the four knives
- like knives where the blade goes all the way to the end of the handle when closed...seem like they were able to make the knife small while keeping the blade as large as possible

TripleB67
 
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You might try the Boker Trance, which is extremely size efficient and meets your overall criteria. It's an excellent framelock and very reasonably priced. It can open either with thumbstuds or a flipper. Since it's not a roller-bearing pivot you'll need to add in some wrist flip. It'll carry thinner than the Robin will, and it's my preferred carry when I am forced to wear casual slacks (in suit pants clip carry doesn't work at all for me, and casual slacks are bad enough because the front pockets are cut wrong).
 
5 knives I think you would really appreciate based on your newfound appreciations for various different options out there; the best bets for you IMO will be

Benchmade mini Griptilian w/ thumb hole, a hair longer then your preferred closed length, (3.87") but BM will send you a deep carry clip for free, (they don't make one specifically for the mini, but a 275 Adamas clip will fit), there's different colors to choose, and not many much easier to one hand close then an axis lock.

Spyderco kiwi - 3.84" closed, with almost 3" blade, very lightweight, under 2oz., and very thin profile. Deep carry Lockback.

Spyderco Dragonfly, vg10 or zdp189
-a better Byrd (Robin). (The native and Delica will be noticeably longer in handle then you prefer when closed)

Small Buck Vantage ($35 avid for a classy looking wood handle or $55 pro for upgraded s30v Steel), 3.75" closed liner lock, but otherwise a great little non assisted, deep carry flipper for the price.

Cold Steel Mini Lawman in cts-xhp, thumstuds, no deep clip, and all black, 3.875" closed, but otherwise a great steel, and I've never had a cold steel that wasnt super sharp out the box. Solid lockback, and solid handle ergonomics. (You can find custom aftermarket clips for nearly any knife, or find guys who make them).

All under 3 oz. (The standard frn handle Dragonfly is under 1.5)

You think you like the 4 you got now, make it a point to get all 5 of those next, in no particular order, and prepare to be blown away. :D

Honorable mention, 2 hand opening FOX or Böker+ Zero. Same knife, same factory, different branding.
No thumbstud, hole, or flipper, just a nice, clean and small deep carry Lockback folder. Still waiting on mine to arrive.
 
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