30-06 vs. 308

[fmajor007]

I read your OP where you want to hunt anything from deer to Canadian elk. I visit another forum that's dedicated to big-game hunting with most participants hunting elk and the *most* debated subject there is the "best" elk cartridge (if there is such a thing....).

An '06 will definitely get the job done and with it's greater case capacity (over the 308) and that it's available over-the-counter everywhere is probably the "better" cartridge (of the two you listed). However, a humane shot taken from an '06 on an elk should probably not exceed 300-400 yds which is also probably the maximum distance any but the most intentional marksman should ever attempt.

I have a 7mm Rem Mag and it gives a little more distance/energy than an '06 (especially so with handloads, but that's another game), but it's not a true, long-distance hammer. In my and in many other long-range shooting practitioner's opiion truly appropriate big-game, long-range (say from 500yds and out) caliber's *begin* with the numbers 338.

The medium 'magnum' cartridges like the 300 Winny/H&H/Roy/Norma are great (my most accurate rifle to date was a 300 Win) and can deliver some serious energy at medium to long range distances. The next up in the medium caliber magnum's like the 300 RUM/Dakota/etc really start to bring the heat - huge volumes of energy at long ranges, but at a cost: barrel life. These hot cartridges are known barrel-burners.

However, when you say *any* big-game in North America that includes big bears and killing those nasty's (from most reasonably experienced accounts) requires as large a caliber as can be fired accurately and confidently. If the largest caliber you're comfortable with is .308 i'd say don't go for big bear. However *i've never hunted large bears*, but the caliber i'd start with is .338.

 

[harleyguy02]

I have 8 trips to Alaska..

Shot both brown and black bears, dall sheep, moose all with a 330 Dakota. 250 gr Swift A frame.

Your splitting hairs with these 2 calibers IMHO.

My choice for an upgrade over the.308/.06 is the 35 whelen or 9.3x 62

Just remember whatever you chose the bullet does the work. Caliber is less important than placement, and you want a good bullet for when you don't do your job.

You can shoot and kill an undisturbed Brown Bear with a .223 and a solid bullet,shot thru the lungs. I don't recommend it, but have seen it done.

I do all my whitetail hunting with 35 Whelen, 225 trophy bonded.. They all drop like being struck by lighting.

 

[338375]

I read your OP where you want to hunt anything from deer to Canadian elk. I visit another forum that's dedicated to big-game hunting with most participants hunting elk and the *most* debated subject there is the "best" elk cartridge (if there is such a thing....).

An '06 will definitely get the job done and with it's greater case capacity (over the 308) and that it's available over-the-counter everywhere is probably the "better" cartridge (of the two you listed). However, a humane shot taken from an '06 on an elk should probably not exceed 300-400 yds which is also probably the maximum distance any but the most intentional marksman should ever attempt.

I have a 7mm Rem Mag and it gives a little more distance/energy than an '06 (especially so with handloads, but that's another game), but it's not a true, long-distance hammer. In my and in many other long-range shooting practitioner's opiion truly appropriate big-game, long-range (say from 500yds and out) caliber's *begin* with the numbers 338.

The medium 'magnum' cartridges like the 300 Winny/H&H/Roy/Norma are great (my most accurate rifle to date was a 300 Win) and can deliver some serious energy at medium to long range distances. The next up in the medium caliber magnum's like the 300 RUM/Dakota/etc really start to bring the heat - huge volumes of energy at long ranges, but at a cost: barrel life. These hot cartridges are known barrel-burners.

However, when you say *any* big-game in North America that includes big bears and killing those nasty's (from most reasonably experienced accounts) requires as large a caliber as can be fired accurately and confidently. If the largest caliber you're comfortable with is .308 i'd say don't go for big bear. However *i've never hunted large bears*, but the caliber i'd start with is .338.

My two favorite cartrdiges are in my user name...
A lot of people think the 338 win mag is overkill, but when I was still rifle hunting, I used it for deer and elk. My main focus has always been elk, but I like the 338 so much, I used it for deer too. It certainly isn't needed for deer, but I am comfortable with the cartridge, and I shoot it well, so I didn't see a need to switch. Not that I didn't have rifles in other calibers, I just never used them much.

As far as the OP's statement of looking for the "Ultimate rifle", I personally don't think the 308 or the 30-06 are choices I would think of to fit that. But it is a personal choice, and they will both work fine, if the shooter does his job.

The 308 with a premium bullet, would work fine for black bear, at reasonable distance, and again, with good shot placement.

I have 8 trips to Alaska..

Shot both brown and black bears, dall sheep, moose all with a 330 Dakota. 250 gr Swift A frame.

Your splitting hairs with these 2 calibers IMHO.

My choice for an upgrade over the.308/.06 is the 35 whelen or 9.3x 62

Just remember whatever you chose the bullet does the work. Caliber is less important than placement, and you want a good bullet for when you don't do your job.

You can shoot and kill an undisturbed Brown Bear with a .223 and a solid bullet,shot thru the lungs. I don't recommend it, but have seen it done.

I do all my whitetail hunting with 35 Whelen, 225 trophy bonded.. They all drop like being struck by lighting.

The cartridges you mentioned are all great rounds, but for the OP, it would really limit him because IIRC,he doesn't handload.
Even the old 35 Rem. is a great cartridge if a person wants a lever rifle. But then again, I think there is only one or two factory loads available for it. I'm still surprised it didn't become more popular than the 30-30, but that just shows my personal bias towards bigger bullets

 

[wdtorque]

Any and all game,
I'd have to say 7mm magnum, 300 win mag, 338 win mag. Ammo is easy to find and they will get the job done.
I'd lean towards the .338, plenty of bullet weights available.

 

[bdmicarta]

The 2 cartridges are very similar in ballistics with a slight advantage to the .30-06 for average bullet weights. There is an advantage to the .30-06 for larger game in that it used to be available with heavier bullets than you could get for the .308. Of course if you are loading your own you could do similar with the .308.

I would expect that .30-06 ammo would be more available than .308. The .308 has the advantage that it works through a short action, this might or might not be an advantage.

With proper ammo the .30-06 should do fine.

 

[Larry from Bend]

If you use 180 grain or heavier bullets, the 06 has a slight velocity advantage --- but not much. The shorter and lighter action of the 308 is a plus in some situations. The Rem 700 is an excellent rifle. Either cartridge will do fine for Deer and Elk. I've killed 5 nice Bulls with a Model 88 Win in .308. Never a problem.

In Montana some guides carry 375s. When asked why, their answer is "To finish off the Elk that the dudes have wounded with their 338s." Seriously, they cringe when out-of-staters show up with their shiney new cannons.

The worst Elk tracking job I ever had was a Spike wounded by a 340 Weatherby.

A reasonably tough and correctly placed bullet from an '06 or 308 will humanely kill any Elk that ever walked; at distances that are appropriate for shooting Elk ----- and they are easy to learn to shoot accurately.

 

[upnorth]

My father killed a lot of moose with an 06. I even had a picture of him with a moose that he killed with a bow in the 60's. When he was a young man he killed a grizzly that was coming into their mining camp with an 06 also. The bear just about got the old man and he said that he held a tree after and puked his guts out from terror.

 

[sodak]

I went through the same question, and for me, I chose the 06. Capable of taking anything in North America with the proper bullet and shot placement. More plentiful ammo to choose from, slightly better case volume and ballistics (I did say slightly) than the .308. I briefly thought about 300 WM and others, but wanted the 06 first, and then, IF I can handle the recoil, it would be a 338 WM or 340 Wby. I'll need to test fire those at a range, I'm not sure I can handle that kind of recoil.

For close in bear protection for Alaskan adventures, I went with the Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70. The high power loads that you can get with those for brush busting are just insane. I wouldn't feel undergunned at all with the 45-70 at close range with modern ammunition.

None of this matters, of course, if you can't hit the target. Those who say that bullet placement is critical are 100% correct. Enraged bears are not impressed in the least by a near miss and loud noise.

 

[338375]

If you use 180 grain or heavier bullets, the 06 has a slight velocity advantage --- but not much. The shorter and lighter action of the 308 is a plus in some situations. The Rem 700 is an excellent rifle. Either cartridge will do fine for Deer and Elk. I've killed 5 nice Bulls with a Model 88 Win in .308. Never a problem.

In Montana some guides carry 375s. When asked why, their answer is "To finish off the Elk that the dudes have wounded with their 338s." Seriously, they cringe when out-of-staters show up with their shiney new cannons.

The worst Elk tracking job I ever had was a Spike wounded by a 340 Weatherby.

A reasonably tough and correctly placed bullet from an '06 or 308 will humanely kill any Elk that ever walked; at distances that are appropriate for shooting Elk ----- and they are easy to learn to shoot accurately.

I have heard the same horror stories. So many guys that decide to hunt Elk, read in a magazine that ya have to have a 338, so they go buy one. Most have enough trouble hitting things with a 270, so they certainly don't need a big maggie...
I'm a little twisted though. I like recoil I would put 20-40 rounds through my 338's off a bench at the range, just for fun, on a semi regular basis.

I went through the same question, and for me, I chose the 06. Capable of taking anything in North America with the proper bullet and shot placement. More plentiful ammo to choose from, slightly better case volume and ballistics (I did say slightly) than the .308. I briefly thought about 300 WM and others, but wanted the 06 first, and then, IF I can handle the recoil, it would be a 338 WM or 340 Wby. I'll need to test fire those at a range, I'm not sure I can handle that kind of recoil.

For close in bear protection for Alaskan adventures, I went with the Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70. The high power loads that you can get with those for brush busting are just insane. I wouldn't feel undergunned at all with the 45-70 at close range with modern ammunition.

None of this matters, of course, if you can't hit the target. Those who say that bullet placement is critical are 100% correct. Enraged bears are not impressed in the least by a near miss and loud noise.

There is a big difference when you step up from the 30's into the 33's. Granted a lot of it depends on the rifle itself. Stock design can make a big difference. They aren't for everyone though.
If you like the 30-06, and can shoot it well, and have good results in the field with it, don't worry to much about the bigger magnums. They are nice, and definitely have their place, but they aren't a must have for most hunting.
Too many people thought they needed a magnum, and after shooting one a couple times, develope a bad flinching habit, and then even have troubles shooting rifles of smaller calibers, that they could shoot just fine, before they started flinching.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

The .308 Winchester was originally designed to be a ballistic twin to the .30-06 Springfield, but in a shorter action rifle. It has some characteristics that make it inherently more accurate than .30-06 at long distances. For a hunting rifle, you won't see that difference, but it might make for a lighter rifle with the shorter action.

The .30-06 Springfield has more case volume and generally handles heavier slugs better. There is a wider selection of off the shelf ammo available and reloading components.

Both will do the task you require with proper bullet selection, taking proper shots, and putting the bullet where it needs to go. Bigger more powerful calibers will only be more forgiving.

I'd select the .30-06 for the loading options and nostalgia, but nothing wrong with either.

As far as rifles, the current crop of rifles is pretty good out there. Lots of folks that know more than me would recommend a Tikka if you weren't going to customize it. I can say a Remington 700 is hard to beat and there's huge aftermarket support for it. I had a Savage 111 that would put overlay holes in a dime (it was .30-06). I think the Accutrigger makes for a good field setup. In Winchester Model 70, you need to do some homework, the rifle has changed over the years and I believe they currently have a modern version and pre 1964 version available. I do like the safety setup on the Winchester.

 

[338375]

I'm partial to Winchesters. I collected them for quite a few years, but only the original Pre-64 Model 70's, and the early lever rifles...

They are great rifles, but in all honesty, not really any better than some of the others. I too like the 3 position safety. I've had some that were absolute tack drivers, and others that were average. You pay a big premium for nice early Winchesters though, and if you aren't really a collector, or a fan of them, it may not be worth the extra $$$.

Remington and Savage make great rifles too... I have only had one Tikka. It was a T3. It was lightweight, and nicely made, and it had the smoothest action I have ever owned, out of all the rifles I have owned. The trigger is easily adjustable too.

I would just find one you like the looks of, and that fits you comfortably, and go for it.

 

[Bo T]

The 30-06 should be fine for everything but the large bear. So should the .308. Remember your barrel might shoot bullets in the heavy range better than those in the light range or vice versa due to the twist rate. There are a lot of hunters retiring from the sport that don't have anyone to pass their favorite hunting rifle to. Keep your eyes open, you might be able to score a 98 or Springfield for a good price. Oops, missed your 2nd post. Use your 280 for smaller game. Your 06 for medium and large game. Buy a .338 Winchester Magnum for the Brown and Grizzley Bear.

 

[338375]

Haha my bad I knew the two models I just got the mixed but there anyways ya I was considering that, personaly I own a remmington 700 and a smith corona 03A3 in 30-06 also a ruger M77 in 280 cal and so on...... all have served me well already when it come to south texas whitetail ware all they eat is mesqite beans and its a Rare sight to see one feild dress 150 pounds.

I forgot about this post... If you already have an 06 and a 280, I really don't think I would change, unless you want to get a magnum.

The 280 is a very good round. The 7mm bullets ( 280, 7mm mag, 7mm-08, 7x57 etc. ) work better than most think.
My best friend has a Remington Mountain rifle in 280. He has killed a lot of animals with it. Deer, Elk, Moose, Antelope, and a decent sized black bear.

I've always been confused as too why the 280 never gained the popularity, that The 7mm mag did
The only benefit I can see, in using a 7mm mag over a 280 is, if you are going to use heavy bullets.

 

[coyotebc]

Personally I would just see what rifle felt the best and/or the best deal on
I regularly hunt northern moose and elk with a 308 and have never been undergunned
I used a 30/06 before that but I didn't like the rifle
I really don't think that most animals could tell the difference between being shot with a 308 or a 30/06

 

[Woodrow F Call]

A poster in Northwest Alaska uses a Mosin Nagant almost exclusively. I think it is actually part of his lively hood. On the high road, his user name is Caribou. He posts lots of pics.

 

[338375]

A poster in Northwest Alaska uses a Mosin Nagant almost exclusively. I think it is actually part of his lively hood. On the high road, his user name is Caribou. He posts lots of pics.

From what I have read over the years, the Fins still use the 6.5x55 a lot for Moose. Heck, I don't know if it is true or not, but I've read that the Inuits use 22's for Moose hunting..

 

[sams]

Buy a rifle wih "contrl round feeding". Calibar is not too important. Accuacy is no. 1.
This is what I found, after 45 yrs of hunting.

I own many rifles and calibars. I like my pre 64 Win M70 .270. I killed more game with a 30/06 Belgium made Browning though.

 

[hunterjrg]

Buy a rifle wih "contrl round feeding". Calibar is not too important. Accuacy is no. 1.
This is what I found, after 45 yrs of hunting.

I own many rifles and calibars. I like my pre 64 Win M70 .270. I killed more game with a 30/06 Belgium made Browning though.

Nice taste in rifles and good logic

 

[338375]

Buy a rifle wih "contrl round feeding". Calibar is not too important. Accuacy is no. 1.
This is what I found, after 45 yrs of hunting.

I own many rifles and calibars. I like my pre 64 Win M70 .270. I killed more game with a 30/06 Belgium made Browning though.

Being a devoted early Winchester fanatic, I like controlled round feeding, but I really don't think it is a must have.
For those that aren't really up on Winchester terminology ( not directed at you), there are two versions of Pre-64 Winchesters.
The obvious originals that were made prior to 1964, and the more recent version of Pre-64's which always bothered me. Granted, they are similar in design, and they brought back the CRF, but they are nothing even close to the originals...

The Belgium Brownings are beautiful rifles. I would still like to get a Safari Grade 338 win mag some day

 

[Woodrow F Call]

From what I have read over the years, the Fins still use the 6.5x55 a lot for Moose. Heck, I don't know if it is true or not, but I've read that the Inuits use 22's for Moose hunting..

The same guy married into an Inuit tribe. He posted about his wife and daughters making mukluks once. He posted about hunting caribou using .22s LR from a boat for back of the head shots. I go look for threads on the high road.

Here is one that talks about the .22s

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?238406-Mad-Minutes-in-Meat-Makeing&p=1889986