317 Smith and Wesson Kit Guns and the Like

[Foilist]

I have a Ramline Exactor like this one:


http://www.nationalgunforum.com/showthread.php?16242-Ramline-Exactor-.22LR-Pistol&p=157225



I got it as a gift from my dad many years ago. I hated it for most of that time, due to constant failures to feed, failures to eject, and not being able to hit anything with it.


Recently, I discovered that if I load it with CCI Stingers, it's like a new gun - no more failures to feed or eject, the bolt locks open after the final round (which it almost never did before), and I can bounce around a soda can from 15-20 yards (which is about the limit of my poor handgun skills).

Since it is a "plastic" gun and only weighs 20oz., it is not a bad choice for toting around outdoors, being light and weather-resistant. Too bad mags are so hard to come by.

 

[TWBryan]

My best .22 handgun is my old Ruger MKII 512 bull barrel,bought it second hand. I've fired a lot of rounds through that gun,very reliable and dead accurate. I did fit it with a volquartsen sear,rear sight,and Clark trigger and extractor. The original extractor broke one day,it kept firing right along though. Wonderful gun.

 

[sotto]

I had one of these back in the mid-1990s and it's an excellent pistol. I don't think I ever had a stoppage with that thing! Accurate, too.

Yes, I've put well over a thousand rounds through the 2213 Sportsman and don't ever recall a jam.

 

[nate1714]

I really like .22 conversion kits for pistols (Sig, Ciener for my BHP, Kimber for my .45 and Kadet for my CZ's), but they are a little heavy.
ROCK6

Not to Hijack but are these worth the money? How is the accuracy would you trust it as a survival situation? I felt they would be ideal in many situation.I had always thought that leaving it a 45 for the trail (safty) and then having a 22lr as backup would be a great combination.

I hear rather spend the money on a small revolver like the 317 plus I hear they aren't that accurate. Is a 317 a better option? Any impute?

 

[Scottman]

I'm curious too about th e accuracy issue. Go for food for a couple days and would you rather have a pistol than a rifle?

I mean yeah, in a true situation traps are much more effective. But when that squirrel pops up x yards away do you feel confident you can hit it with the 22 pistol? Myself I feel much more confident with a little 22 rifle.

Don't get me wrong I love 22 pistols, just curious as to what others think.

 

[koyote]

I'm currently rotating through a 6 inch H&R Sportsman .22, a 6 inch K38, and a Mauser HSc.

The HSc isn't much of a kit gun, but it's good on SD and I can actually hit a snake head (golfball) at 7 yards pretty reliably. It's easy to carry for quick desert runs and out around the property line.

The .22 is such a nice piece, and such good shooting, but my potential shooting out here starts with snake, goes through to coyote, feral dog, and possibly some variant of swine, and maybe onto goblin. There are no squirrels. Plenty of rabbits and hare, though.

So right now, honestly, as much as I want to find the right .22, my "quickie run to see the desert with my son" carry is becoming this:

and my serious carry is evolving to this:

Maybe I need a 317. or a bearcat.

 

[Les Snyder]

Nate1714...several friends are using straight blowback .22 conversions (barrel/slide/mag) on 1911 framed pistols and getting good accuracy for speed shooting, using their competition lowers.. same trigger and feel... not sure of brand.. I used to shoot a Colt conversion with the floating chamber to give the feel of a .45 and the accuracy was pretty bad...I think any of the MK1 and MK2 Rugers with adjustable sights would be a better option than a conversion and available on the used market...when I have a bad day at the range I take out my SW M41 or High Standard Citation to shoot good groups....

 

[ROCK6]

Not to Hijack but are these worth the money? How is the accuracy would you trust it as a survival situation? I felt they would be ideal in many situation.I had always thought that leaving it a 45 for the trail (safty) and then having a 22lr as backup would be a great combination.

I hear rather spend the money on a small revolver like the 317 plus I hear they aren't that accurate. Is a 317 a better option? Any impute?

I'm a little torn. I recently picked up a Ciener conversion for my BHP and I haven't had enough time to make an opinion, but I've been pretty impressed with the others. The CZ is probably the most accurate; both the Kimber and Sig versions are the simplest. All have been reliable, but only good for a couple hundred rounds before you need to clean/lube as .22 ammo is pretty dirty with these.

For the weight of the CZ Kadet conversion, I would almost opt for a separate .22LR pistol. The beauty of conversion kits is that you can really do a lot of draw-drills for your CCW much cheaper. They're also a lot of fun

I still like the idea of a dedicated "kit gun" vice a CCW that can use a conversion. It seems like anytime you'd get an opportunity to shoot a squirrel or rabbit, you wouldn't have the .22 conversion on; and I would hate to be caught in a situation where I needed the full size caliber but had the .22 conversion on.

Unless you make a dedicated conversion (I kind of did this with one of my CZ's), conversion kits are excellent for range training, plinking and fun. I should have my 317 this week, so maybe I'll get a better comparison; and I like the idea of a dedicated "kit gun".

To answer the accuracy question, practice is needed with a pistol. My son and I use clay pigeons for practice. I have two older revolvers (a J.C. Higgins Ranger and a Heritage 929), my range is probably 15-20 years for consistent hits. With my Buckmark (and CZ conversion), I'm more accurate out to 25-30 yards. For small game within 20-25 yards, practice will get you on target with a pistol; outside that, I would really consider packing my Papoose or Scout rifles. Part of the issue is your game and location. I see "kit guns" as guns of opportunity; a stalled rabbit at close range, the squirrel taunting on a tree a few yards away, the roosting game bird or treed porcupine. I wouldn’t take a low-probability kill shot on an animal. For my skill level, my .22 pistols are for killing small game that I am close enough to throw a rock at…if you’re really out for hunting small game, I would much rather opt for a rifle. The pistol is just a compact and (if in the right platform) light piece of insurance.

ROCK6

 

[Stainz]

I have had a new 4" x10 617 for two years - and bought a LNIB 5" 63 from a friend's estate over a year ago. I wanted a 317K - but the trigger effort chased me away - as it did from the .22 WMR 7-shot 351PD. The 63 has the same innards in it's SS J-frame, but somehow is a bit easier to improve. I also changed the springs, using Wolff's strongest hammer spring replacement from their 3-spring kit. Note: S&W errs to the high side here - the J-frame rimfires require more of a firing pin whack than the centerfires do. I also changed the trigger rebound/return spring - and cleaned/lubed the innards, making quite an improvement in the DA pull, the SA being nearly perfect before - more so after. I have experienced no ftf's with any of the six different .22 ammos I have - and I am thankful it likes the el-cheapo Federals from WallyWorld. Of course, the 617 is better, still - what a trigger!

I can't find a holster for my 5" 63, so no woods time yet. I do have a DS-10 8x speedloader - and 4 x 8 loading plate for it, my similar 10X speedloader and 6 x 10 loading plate being such a 'hit'. Actually, a 3" 63 was advertised on S&W's site early in the year - and on pg 34 of the later released 2010 catalog as SKU #162634 - MSRP $869! It is still not available - or on their build schedule, meaning they are probably awaiting a part. It's 26 oz weight, only 2 oz less than my 5" 63, is over twice the 317K, SKU #160221 MSRP $853, weight of 12.5 oz empty. As the 3" 63, like the 317K, has a HiViz front sight, I elected to try one on my 5" 63 - and I love it! I have no fear that I couldn't hit a stationary rabbit or squirrel at a comfortable distance to distinguish such. The longer sight radius and extra mass help... except for toting!

My current stomping in the woods gun is a pocket piece - in a R. Mika pocket holster - a S&W 296 AirLite Ti 2.5" hammerless .44 Special. Holstered, it fits in a cargo pants pocket, the other one carrying spare ammo. In the woods, I load first a 240gr LSWC followed by four 200gr Gold Dot JHPs. The first one is for four legged threats - the remainder, for 2-legged/thin skins. The latter are my greatest threats when woods-stomping. For 'survival' - I could still get a stationary small morsel I could identify. If I miss, I could probably follow the poop trail... if I hit it, well, it's already tenderized...

Whether I get a 317K, 3" 63, or a holster for my present 5" 63, I'll carry that little .44 Special for 'protection'.

Stainz

 

[Briarbrow]

I don't know if you'd consider these to be "and the like". But I have been considering something from NAA like maybe the mini-master. The Earl is a pretty neat looking little gun. Aside from only holding 5 rather than 8 or 10 what other disadvantages do you see in these little thumbcockers?
http://www.northamericanarms.com/index02.html

 

[Smash05]

High Standard Sentinel in 22mag/22lr. I am considering replacing it with a single six.

 

[koyote]

I don't know if you'd consider these to be "and the like". But I have been considering something from NAA like maybe the mini-master. The Earl is a pretty neat looking little gun. Aside from only holding 5 rather than 8 or 10 what other disadvantages do you see in these little thumbcockers?
http://www.northamericanarms.com/index02.html

I've been looking at the minimaster a lot, as well. While the NAA .22s are often considered as last ditch backup guns, I've always looked at the widow/minimaster/earl types as kit guns.

I honestly don't see a problem with the 5 round capacity in what a kit gun is for.

 

[Ed Fowler]

My 317 is very accurate, will hold 4" easily at 50 yards with the right ammo. Easy to carry, delightful to hold, I love it.

 

[Fieldtestornothing]

My favorite kit gun. Ruger MK II w/ Integrated dry suppressor. It has a lot of attributes that I enjoy in a firearm. I carry it in a open bottom shoulder holster if I am not caring a self defense firearm. Otherwise, it goes in the pack with a hundred rounds of .22 eley subsonics. I can't say enough good things about suppressed firearms. No hearing protection required, my kids love to shoot it, and it doesn't scare or alert people or animals. Sounds like a pellet gun and with hotter ammo can put a lot of stuff in the pot. I have taken a numerous game with this pistol and have shot several coyotes inside of 25m. Highly recommend the Ruger mK II platform. The downside is the weight. This one comes in at about 33oz, about the same as a full size 1911.

Although, I am working on a new Ruger MK III with pac-lite upper and a removable lightweight can that will fit both my AR and this pistol. Weight will be around 25oz. I'll post pics when it is complete.

 

[nate1714]

I've been looking at the minimaster a lot, as well. While the NAA .22s are often considered as last ditch backup guns, I've always looked at the widow/minimaster/earl types as kit guns.

I honestly don't see a problem with the 5 round capacity in what a kit gun is for.

I have heard since they are so small they kick like a mule and if you dont expect it they have been known to jump out of peoples hands.

 

[ROCK6]

Stainz

Man, those are beautiful pieces!:thumbup:

My 317 is very accurate, will hold 4" easily at 50 yards with the right ammo. Easy to carry, delightful to hold, I love it.

Good to hear, I'm hoping to pick mine up tomorrow or Thursday

Although, I am working on a new Ruger MK III with pac-lite upper and a removable lightweight can that will fit both my AR and this pistol. Weight will be around 25oz. I'll post pics when it is complete.

That's a great looking integral suppressed Ruger:thumbup: I'm planning on doing the Tactical Solutions with threaded barrel and I've got the resources/channels to do the transfer on a Gemtech. I'll be interested to see your setup when you get it completed.

I have heard since they are so small they kick like a mule and if you dont expect it they have been known to jump out of peoples hands.

I don't know about the .22 mag versions, but I've had my short barrel NAA .22LR revolver for over 10 years (did some comfort time for me in South America) and it's a pleasure to shoot...and accurate! I should have took pictures this past weekend as my son was shooting it. At about 15 feet away, he was putting all five rounds in a 4" circle. I wouldn't say they kick that much, but I have the small handle which can be a challenge to hold onto, especially if trying to get onto target fast from the pocket holster.

ROCK6

 

[fishunter219]

I sold my S&W Kit Gun years ago and wish I hadn't.Bearcats are a neat little revolver. Currently I'm carrying a Walther P22 and really love it. As I've gotten older and my eyesight has gotten worse, being able to see the sights is an important factor for me. The P22 works great for me.

 

[Loosearrow]

abo4ster,

I prefer the papoose if I am able to bring it. "A boy with a rifle is almost always able to outshoot a man with a handgun" as I was always told. Both great firearms.

I like your quote. True words. It is probably the only gun the boy shoots. He makes it work for him.

 

[Gossman Knives]

Got a 22 barrel ordered for my Bond derringer. Handy size gun for the pack.
Scott