#35 Beer and Sausage Bar Tool Knife

[Camillus]

nuts. Absolute nuttery.
.

I agree. It’s one thing to be unique, but this is really odd. I used to think GEC’s idiosyncracies were kinda cool, these days I just find it exasperating. Such as the weird blade etches - for example on the crown lifter.

I think the limited choices are upping the ante in terms of expectations and pressure.

 

[Mitt]

I will say that it is a bit disappointed that they don’t pay attention to BF but Mr Bell posted that on FaceBook- which I don’t have and never will.

It’s not surprising at all. I have been on various forums from fly fishing to automotive and you rarely find any manufacturer involvement. It’s almost always just individuals and vendors. Manufacturers just don’t have time to listen to people bitch and moan. Their involvement is done after the product goes to a vendor. If it sales or sits on shelves it doesn’t matter too much to them. It’s off their books when it’s out the door and on to the vendors.

 

[jsdistin]

Is this the first time GEC has made a knife with damascus blade?

The guy that gets the sfo’s done does one a year I think. I know of 5 different models he’s had done in Damascus.

 

[Markeologist]

It’s not surprising at all. I have been on various forums from fly fishing to automotive and you rarely find any manufacturer involvement. It’s almost always just individuals and vendors. Manufacturers just don’t have time to listen to people bitch and moan. Their involvement is done after the product goes to a vendor. If it sales or sits on shelves it doesn’t matter too much to them. It’s off their books when it’s out the door and on to the vendors.

Seems like both Buck and Spyderco are pretty active on the forums.

 

[Mitt]

Seems like both Buck and Spyderco are pretty active on the forums.

Yeah I can name some that are too. Just because they are doesn’t mean it’s industry standard.

Manufacturers mostly gauge interest from vendors not some negative Nancy whining about stray hair.

 

[Norcaldude]

it would still be nice to see GEC have a presence on the forums. We are a group of GEC enthusiasts and supporters and many of us prefer the structure that the forums provide - even if it appears that we are simply whining about one thing or another.

I have been in several of the larger FB slipjoint groups and Randy Bell is the only GEC employee that has a regular presence. I think I have seen at least one other person that worked at GEC in some capacity joined but they did not say much from what I saw.

I agree that FB is terrible. I don't believe that Mr Howard pays much attention to them either.
All he really needs to pay attention to is the sales figures and his own knife making desires.

Trying to cater to the whims of the various people commenting here and on FB would just lead to nothing much happening. Anything he does he'll have somebody shouting that it's terrible. Be it half stops or shields or no shields or choice of covers.

The knives he makes right now, driven by his own methods, sell like hot cakes. No reason for him to change.

 

[Jiki]

Still disagree with you here Jiki (and nobody shouted). Its not the state of GEC given how many different GEC patterns are still available retail....if a pattern is wanted by many, it sells; if it is a pattern of lesser interest, it sits. If it was all GECs, they would all be moving off shelves but that is not the case. The B&SK is a completely different animal and how fast they sold given fairly high production totals and how many showed up immediately on the secondary market for pretty inflated prices bares this out. In my not so humble opinion, there were clearly different buyers vying for this release...those who really liked the knife, those who were afraid of missing out on the next big thing, and those who bought with sole intent to flip. I think what drove the market for the B&SK is twofold, 1) it was on the 35 frame, a desirable knife that many have been pining for a pretty long time; and 2) the perceived connection to the Beer Scout, probably the knife more folks felt they missed out on (it is my Beer Scouts that I receive the most unsolicited offers for). The current high price of Beer Scouts helped set the price the flippers are asking for the B&SK...not sure of many B&SKs have sold at 2 to 4 times retail, but when you see Beer Scouts selling for $400 and $500 (including a recent store model), asking $300 for a B&SK seems like a deal.

The B&SKs you all bought are looking pretty nice, please enjoy them. I have no intent to buy one but I did come to realize some of my aversion was the whole mixed messaging of GEC's marketing. If it had been called/marketed as a Bartenders Scout with the fork to be primarily used for cocktail garnishes and the comb for a strainer (as I had postulated when the images hit the GEC website) I think I would have looked on this knife differently. But calling it a bartenders tool seems odd to me when GEC claims that the fork is for eating sausage and the comb is for combing your beard...neither of which have anything to do with bartending. Although a nice knife and I'm glad you are all enjoying, I think GEC missed the opportunity here to create a classic more in line with the Beer Scout, devoid of what I perceive as a gimmicks on the B&SK, the beard comb and the name.

You are more than welcome to disagree with me, however you continue to reframe my statement and therefore you are not disagreeing with me but rather the statement you are making. My statement simply includes current production and the sales of that production. No, I do not have to consider the stock on the shelves the value of that has already been determined. Plus why would a flipper buy up old stock? They are trying to buy all the new products and flip them quickly. So first you say that I have to include old stock then you say I can't include the actual current product, because it's a different animal.
Yes B&S have shown up on auction sites so have M&G and so will 74s.
What is driving the market is the high demand for GEC knives and small production numbers. 1200 knives is no longer a large run for GEC (the secret is out). Your assessment of the customer types is correct, and those customers are going to continue make every "drop" for the foreseeable future a "lolly scramble" unless GEC makes a HUGE run. My original premise.

 

[hornetguy]

Well, today was the maiden voyage of my B&S knife to the back patio... it arrived today, and I think it's a keeper. It's definitely unique, and it feels much better in hand than I expected it to, with three springs. The main blade is probably just barely under a 5... the fork/lifter is a solid 5, and the brrt is the lowest, at a moderate 4.
All of these are purely subjective, but it's a comfortable knife. It will take some work on the stone, as it came "less than sharp"... but that is ok.
Ebony rocks, though....

 

[Jiki]

Oh. I almost forgot this showed up today, a lot of character IMO. I also paid for my autumn jigged B&S today. So I will finally be able to see what all the hub bub is about.

 

[Scott J.]

Oh. I almost forgot this showed up today, a lot of character IMO. I also paid for my autumn jigged B&S today. So I will finally be able to see what all the hub bub is about.

I think that appaloosa bone is the best looking of the bunch.

 

[bbfish]

Oh. I almost forgot this showed up today, a lot of character IMO. I also paid for my autumn jigged B&S today. So I will finally be able to see what all the hub bub is about.

This one is making me regret choosing ebony!

 

[Mitt]

I think that appaloosa bone is the best looking of the bunch.

They are very pale. The 81 had better Appaloosa bone.

 

[paulhilborn]

 

[Quiet]

I have been in several of the larger FB slipjoint groups and Randy Bell is the only GEC employee that has a regular presence. I think I have seen at least one other person that worked at GEC in some capacity joined but they did not say much from what I saw.

I agree that FB is terrible. I don't believe that Mr Howard pays much attention to them either.
All he really needs to pay attention to is the sales figures and his own knife making desires.

Trying to cater to the whims of the various people commenting here and on FB would just lead to nothing much happening. Anything he does he'll have somebody shouting that it's terrible. Be it half stops or shields or no shields or choice of covers.

The knives he makes right now, driven by his own methods, sell like hot cakes. No reason for him to change.

This 100%. Before these knives dropped, the cringy, whiny comments about how GEC was going downhill, or that they were knives "most people can agree we don't want"*, or that GEC was going to be a "laughingstock", or that people who like these knives clearly must have some issue (or we're "hipsters" ) were numerous. That was despite many folks (like me) saying these were neat knives that we were excited for. Then, the knives dropped, all preorders vanished immediately, and the pics of knives in hand and positive comments started showing up here en masse. However, for some reason, this knife is still being blamed as some sort of sign that GEC is "out of touch" or that they aren't giving their customers what they want. I mean...like, a very small percentage of these knives have shown up on Ebay at vastly marked up prices (and the "completed auctions" tell the tale about how people are clearly willing to own these knives at that price). The facts suggest that these are very much knives that people wanted, and continue to try to chase down. Those that didn't go to Ebay are in the hands of appreciative owners (again, like me). Additionally, there's a LARGE number of these knives I've seen on Instagram's #GreatEasternCutlery feed along with all of the comments about how happy owners are, as well as how many comments these posts have from people who are sorry to have missed a drop.

And you ask why isn't Bill Howard in here listening to us, doing what the members of this board advise?

Heh, if he'd have listened to some of you, we wouldn't have these great knives. That tells the tale 100%, I think. If I were Mr. Howard, I wouldn't come in here either, to have a bunch of folks who don't own a knife company trying to tell me what I should be doing with my business. I wouldn't put up with that at all.

That said, for some of the naysayers, there's great news! I've seen a couple of different folks who are working on their own knife brands, and building their own knives. Perhaps you might consider starting up a company and showing us all (and GEC) how it "should" be done? I'd be more than glad to take a look!!


* False.

 

[Markeologist]

You are more than welcome to disagree with me, however you continue to reframe my statement and therefore you are not disagreeing with me but rather the statement you are making. My statement simply includes current production and the sales of that production. No, I do not have to consider the stock on the shelves the value of that has already been determined. Plus why would a flipper buy up old stock? They are trying to buy all the new products and flip them quickly. So first you say that I have to include old stock then you say I can't include the actual current product, because it's a different animal.
Yes B&S have shown up on auction sites so have M&G and so will 74s.
. 1200 knives is no longer a large run for GEC (the secret is out). Your assessment of the customer types is correct, and those customers are going to continue make every "drop" for the foreseeable future a "lolly scramble" unless GEC makes a HUGE run. My original premise.

Not reframing any statement and you are starting to split hairs again … your simple statement above: "What is driving the market is the high demand for GEC knives and small production numbers" is exactly the point I have been disagreeing with and your premise is so easily disputed. It is not the demand for GEC knives in general as you continue to state. If it were, then there would not be so many GEC knives available at retail. That has been my point and I gave you a list of several patterns that are still available retail. Again, it is the popularity of certain patterns and the hype surrounding some releases that causes the frenzy not the fact that a knife is a GEC alone.

 

[Jiki]

Not reframing any statement and you are starting to split hairs again … your simple statement above: "What is driving the market is the high demand for GEC knives and small production numbers" is exactly the point I have been disagreeing with and your premise is so easily disputed. It is not the demand for GEC knives in general as you continue to state. If it were, then there would not be so many GEC knives available at retail. That has been my point and I gave you a list of several patterns that are still available retail. Again, it is the popularity of certain patterns and the hype surrounding some releases that causes the frenzy not the fact that a knife is a GEC alone.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Pàdruig]

I have been in several of the larger FB slipjoint groups and Randy Bell is the only GEC employee that has a regular presence. I think I have seen at least one other person that worked at GEC in some capacity joined but they did not say much from what I saw.

I agree that FB is terrible. I don't believe that Mr Howard pays much attention to them either.
All he really needs to pay attention to is the sales figures and his own knife making desires.

Trying to cater to the whims of the various people commenting here and on FB would just lead to nothing much happening. Anything he does he'll have somebody shouting that it's terrible. Be it half stops or shields or no shields or choice of covers.

The knives he makes right now, driven by his own methods, sell like hot cakes. No reason for him to change.

Nicely said - there is nothing here that I disagree with. I still contend that I wouldn't mind a GEC presence here - not to hear our gripes per se but to be part of our discussions (much like Randy appears to be on Facebook).

They are very pale. The 81 had better Appaloosa bone.

I'd have to agree. Though I like smooth white bone - when it comes to Appaloosa, I'd like more character. I had a #56 in Appaloosa bone that was just excellent - I traded it off to @Will Power awhile back. Maybe he can show it off here if he still has it.

 

[Quiet]

Not reframing any statement and you are starting to split hairs again … your simple statement above: "What is driving the market is the high demand for GEC knives and small production numbers" is exactly the point I have been disagreeing with and your premise is so easily disputed. It is not the demand for GEC knives in general as you continue to state. If it were, then there would not be so many GEC knives available at retail. That has been my point and I gave you a list of several patterns that are still available retail. Again, it is the popularity of certain patterns and the hype surrounding some releases that causes the frenzy not the fact that a knife is a GEC alone.

Ironic that you mention Jiki is splitting hairs, when you're doing the same thing. Some designs aren't hot for whatever reason that's entirely beside the point. The bail & chain knives are still available because they're tiny, and every dealer mentions that removing the chain voids the warranty. A lot of folks didn't like the light springs of the 97s. The #38s, eh, I can see why they aren't hot, as I don't love that frame myself. Some of the pocket carvers, and maybe the acrylic #86 are still around, those weren't to everyone's taste, which is fair. A lot of why the "hot" GEC models vanishing instantly is because they're GEC. They're GEC knives, made to a very high standard, in a desirable pattern. If that weren't the case, we'd all be talking about Case, Rough Ryder, and whatever new/old stock Queens people could find. GEC is the major game in town, and both newcomers trying to go back and snap up previous release knives, as well as current GEC collectors snapping up desirable new models is why they're hot. There are two separate groups of collectors all vying for the same small batch runs. Just think, if Queen could have been doing what GEC has done, make traditional knives fresh and exciting again...maybe they'd still be around. GEC know what they're doing, and people understand that GEC make a quality product. Good for Mr. Howard, and good for those guys up in Titusville making a product that's in such demand. I wish they made larger runs, and hopefully they'll iron that out in time.

 

[Jiki]

They are very pale. The 81 had better Appaloosa bone.

There certainly is darker Appaloosa out there, fortunately it does have alot character and depth that I can't capture on camera.

 

[brownshoe]

I agree. It’s one thing to be unique, but this is really odd. I used to think GEC’s idiosyncracies were kinda cool, these days I just find it exasperating. Such as the weird blade etches - for example on the crown lifter.

I think the limited choices are upping the ante in terms of expectations and pressure.

I used to think the idiosycracies of GEC use of 1095 very exasperating. I can't put good money into knives that rust...and come dull. Then I realized 1095 and the edge were to minimize overhead to maximize profit. Most of GEC idiosyncrasies helps maximize sales.

To me the B&S is their way to see what they can get away with. B&S is code for BS It has two nontraditional blades that avoid grinding, i.e. lower cost. The story of the design genesis provided by a dealer is also very good team marketing even down to syntax of the copy. There is a long history of sweet ways to separate traditional cutlery collectors from money and maximize profit. GEC is a master at it and they and their dealers enjoy their work. That's OK by me, but in the old days you got 440C