.380 Bersa semi--Made in Argentina

vwb563 said:
Awww man you are just wanting to argue! The man stated he already owns one! If he were asking what to go buy I would NOT have recomended a 380 as the first choice gun unless thats the biggets caliber he can handle, which I doubt. So the fact is he might as well use what he has at hand! A 380 is a heck of a lot better than throwing a rock or reverting to knife fighting!,,,VWB.
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No, I don't just want to argue, but to make some key points.

He also owns a Makarov, which is similar in size and weight to that Bersa, yet fires a slightly more powerful round. Why not continue to carry that?

But here is his OP:

Anyone own one ? My son bought a new one to carry & keeps the BIG Iron in his truck. He paid $399 new & today I found a almost cherry one for $200. (we later learned he bought it)
My 9mm is a bit bulky & the .45 US revolver is too heavy & bulky. My question is what stopping power does it (the .380) have? Penetration would be deep vs. impact. Can't locate hollow points . Guess a double or triple tap will do it .
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To answer his questions, it has little stopping power. A double or triple tap likely will NOT do it, especially with FMJ ammo.

If one is serious about arming themselves for self defense, then don't rely on a .380, even if you already own one.

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uncle Alan said:
My 9mm is a bit bulky & the .45 US revolver is too heavy & bulky.
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Sounds like to me by saying "my 9mm is a bit bulky & the .45 US revolver is too heavy & bulky" he means they are being left at home. A gun left at home does him no good. It also sounds like to me he is considering carring the Bersa. This is a good thing compared to not carring a gun at all for self defense. ONCE AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, A 380 IS BETTER THAN NO GUN AT ALL OR REVERTING TO KNIFE FIGHTING!,,VWB.
 
vwb563 said:
Sounds like to me by saying "my 9mm is a bit bulky... A gun left at home does him no good.
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Actually, he said this:

I do have a Makarov 9MM that carries well & holsters so an accidental discharge will miss my left cheek . It weighs about 1 & 1/2 pounds so it'll be carry of choice.
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And now that I've re-read it, I'm a bit confused.....where's the .380 in this? Oh, well !

A 380 IS BETTER THAN NO GUN AT ALL OR REVERTING TO KNIFE FIGHTING!,,VWB.
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We agree on this. ANY gun with you beats ANY gun not.

But that said, not all guns are equally suited for the task of self defense. Still, I'd rather see someone carry a reliable .25 auto than not carry something "better," as long as they recognize the limitations of their selection.

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FWIW i'd take a mak' over a bersa any day of the week & twice on sunday, almost the same size, lighter, shoots a better round to name 3 reasons.

if i was gonna pack a .380 i'd want a little one like a kel-tec P3AT not a heavy bersa .380 which is as big as some 9X19MM pistols.

really maks arent a bad little pistol, i got a russian one yrs ago when they were cheap, IIRC ~$150 w/accesorries, i even carried it for a while, but since i now have a kahr P9 & PM9 i have'nt touched my mak in 5-6 yrs.
 
vwb563 said:
Awww man you are just wanting to argue! The man stated he already owns one! If he were asking what to go buy I would NOT have recomended a 380 as the first choice gun unless thats the biggets caliber he can handle, which I doubt. So the fact is he might as well use what he has at hand! A 380 is a heck of a lot better than throwing a rock or reverting to knife fighting!,,,VWB.
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perhaps not argue but discuss, isnt that what internet forums are for, discussion??
 
I had a Bersa 380, alloy frame, it was light and thin vs. a revolver. It was a good solid gun that I picked up for $200 from a coworker moving to Australia. Not sure why I sold it. The 380 is a good as a 38spcl in a snubby. Use good ammo for carry and you should have a fine little personal protection gun. Yes, there are small 9mm Para out there like Springfield, Kahr, Glock, Para Ordanance but they are a whole lot more expensive. My CCW battery includes a Kimber Compact, a Taurus M85ul snubby and a Keltec P32. The Bersa was much easier to shoot well than my snubby - but, my wife likes the revolver and it is her nightstand gun. My truck gun is a FN Highpower or my Taurus 66 357.

In conclusion, the Bersa is a good gun at a good price, learn to show well with them and use a known performer in ammo for carry.
A good read on the gun:

http://www.gunblast.com/Bersa_380CC.htm

Tim
 
The 380 is not as good as a 38 snubbie unless you carry ammo in the 38 that is underpowered. You cannot say that a 80gr bullet moving at 1050fps and producing 196ftlbs of energy is as effective as a 110gr bullet moving at 1050fps producing 270ftlbs of energy. The 38 snub wins hands down. Evan Marshall's/Ed Sanow's book was quoted in this thread but I would point out it was the first book Evan did on the subject and Evan will tell you that with advancements in ammo design those numbers have changed somewhat. I cannot claim Evan or Ed as a "close personal friend of mine" but I have participated in testing with Evan, shot with both of them, broke bread with them. Basically the new ammos, particularly Cor-Bon, have changed things a good bit, that is why Evan has written two newer books to reflect the advances made in. They are available here: https://www.stoppingpower.net/store/comersus_index.asp

Is the .380 a good gun for self-defense? As my first post said it is better than a .22 or.25. Would I depend on it? In a word, no. I carry daily and I think the 9X19 is the minimum for a main gun, it is also the smallest I carry for a BUG. They are not more expensive than the Bersa to buy, I picked up my Kel-Tec PF-9 for under $200 with extra mag, P-11s are about the same if you want higher capacity. Practice ammo is much cheaper as well. (I reload all my practice but not everyone reloads)

A gun made for SD has to be capable of stopping aggression quickly. Foot pounds of energy are the answer to the problem, you must either shut down the central nervous system or break down the skeleton's support system. A broken pelvis will drop anyone to the ground.

The Bersa is a reasonably well made gun, they shoot well enough for the ranges encountered for typical SD situations (normally under 7 yards), and are generally reliable when fed quality ammo. I just don't feel they pack enough energy to qualify as a main carry gun. However if you will carry the .380 and won't carry anything bigger or the .380 is the only gun you own then yes, it is better than not carrying a gun a all.
 
Absintheur said:
The 380 is not as good as a 38 snubbie unless you carry ammo in the 38 that is underpowered. You cannot say that a 80gr bullet moving at 1050fps and producing 196ftlbs of energy is as effective as a 110gr bullet moving at 1050fps producing 270ftlbs of energy. The 38 snub wins hands down.
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I would love to know what brand of .38 spl 110g ammo you were using to get 1050fps from a 2" snub! I have a Smith & Wesson 637 that is practically new and almost 125g + P I've tried usually comes in somewhere around 800 to 825fps which gets you approx 189 lbs of muzzle energy tops. So using you own figures for the 380 will generate 196lbs of muzzle energy. So if those figures are correct, the 380 wins! I can't imagine a 110g .38 being that much faster than the 125 +p. Now I would trust the penetration of the 125g .38 better than a 380 90g round but I think most 380's make up for that loss in the handling and reloading catagory. Most 380's can through more lead accurately at the target than a 38 can due to recoil and low capacity. And then when it comes time to reload, well, most people cant reload a revolver nearly as fast as an auto. Now dont get me wrong, I love a good revolver and sometimes carry one as my off duty weapon. Im just saying dont count out a 380 as a decent back-up / off duty weapon. I was getting in the habbit of not carring off duty at all due to my Glock 27's weight and bulkiness and my 637's aggervating sharp edged cylinder until the Kel-Tec / LCP rage came along. After buying one these I have carried everyday since. My LCP is like my American Express card,,I dont leave home without it!,,,VWB.
 
Hey y'all: It has been brought to my attention that yesterday I crossed over the line of social decorum [plain talk...I violated the Forum's rules on foul and abusive language]. I would like to thank Cougar Allen for bringing this to my attention and to publicly apologize to the members of the Forum who unfortunately had to witness my infantile tirade. Bottom line...use this Forum for what it was intended for and use it respectfully...use it as it the rules dictate or don't use it at all!!!
Apologies to everyone,
Flash Edwards
 
Out of my 3" J frame the Corbon 125 +P averages about 1047, the 110 +P about 100fps faster. I doubt you will get 1050 out of the Bersa and very doubtful you will get it out of the shorter Ruger. In my testing when I owned my P-3AT Cor Bon 80gr averaged 914fps according to my records.

As far as reloading...in an civilian SD situation if you need to reload you probably will not get a chance or, if you are in a barricaded position, you will have more than enough time to reload using a speedloader. If you cannot load a revolver quickly you need to practice. Of course that is one of the arguments for carrying a BUG, the fastest reload is a loaded back-up...lol. I carry an N frame revolver daily (S&M325PD) and normally either the J-frame or Detective special set up cross draw and the PF-9 in my pocket or a Kramer Deep Cover T-Shirt.

The point I was making in my initial post however was that you can go up in caliber to a 9mm, stay the same size or smaller just as cheap as you can with the Bersa.
 
Absintheur said:
Out of my 3" J frame the Corbon 125 +P averages about 1047, the 110 +P about 100fps faster. I doubt you will get 1050 out of the Bersa and very doubtful you will get it out of the shorter Ruger. In my testing when I owned my P-3AT Cor Bon 80gr averaged 914fps according to my records.
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That makes sense! A 3" barrel will get that amount of velocity, but not a 2".
And "yes" the Bersa will get that amount of veloicity with the Cor Bon 90g jhp if not a little more somewhere close to 1100fps! But there will not be as much muzzle energy since its a 90g v/s 110g - 240 lbs v/s 270 lbs.


Absintheur said:
The point I was making in my initial post however was that you can go up in caliber to a 9mm, stay the same size or smaller just as cheap as you can with the Bersa.
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I agree 110% ! But,,the issue is he is not going out to buy a new gun and needing advice on what to buy, he already has the Bersa. I was merely telling him that with the right load the Bersa is a decent self protection piece. Its definately not the best he "could get" but it will sufice since he already has it!,,,VWB
 
I own a Bersa Thunder .380 and its a great value IMO. Its my summer time CCW in rotation with a Glock 19 and a Springfield XDSC40.
I paid $299 about 5 years back and its been a great carry gun. Its also very popular on the forums I visit. Thefiringline.com and Glocktalk.
You might also check out Bersatalk.com.
 
vwb563 said:
That makes sense! A 3" barrel will get that amount of velocity, but not a 2".
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Au contraire !

Here is a line straight from the Corbon ammo page:

38 SPEC +P 110 GR. JHP 1050 FPS 269 FTLBS 2.0 (barrel)

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Well, if we're going to have the caliber wars argument, allow me to say that I still think Jean-Luc Picard could kick Captain Kirk's butt.
 
flashedwards said:
Yeh, my money is on James T. but what about Capt. Pike ?
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What about him? The alien generated illusion has him up and running, but in "reel life" he's in a wheel chair !

And he wouldn't ever use a .380 for defense on purpose ! :D :D :D

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