3g vs s30v

michaelm466

michaelm466

Joined
Mar 5, 2009
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I'm very new to the higher quality knives and steel, but have used knives all my life, camping, boy scouts and such. I've been doing lots of research on steels and knife companies, I'm really considering a Fallkniven h1 in 3g, i've also looked at several knives in s30v, anybody out there have any opinions on the comparison of the two? Any input would be appreciated :)
 
3g and S30v are both great steels, depending on where you get the S30v from there will be lsight variations in how it handles, i've always found it to be a pretty good steel which isn't as hard to sharpen as some other high end steel.

Fallkniven make fantastic knives, their 3g steel takes and holds the sharpest edge of any i've used
 
I've had the opposite results of Vassili, horrible edge retention with S30V, but 3G has been very good. If you go with S30V, make sure it's with someone who has proven heat treat.
 
I EDC a Fallkniven P/3G folder and I'm nothing but impressed with the 3G steel. I find it holds an edge well and a couple quick passes over a diamond/ceramic combo stone and it is back to razor sharp.

Can't compare to S30V because I have never used this steel on a daily user.

I'm a fan of Fallkniven knives, so I'm maybe a bit biased, but I'm certain you would be very impressed with the H1/3G.

That said, a good quality knife in S30V would likely be a fine choice that would perform extremely well.

Kevin
 
sodak said:
I've had the opposite results of Vassili, horrible edge retention with S30V, but 3G has been very good. If you go with S30V, make sure it's with someone who has proven heat treat.
Click to expand...

May I see your results?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
May I see your results?

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

We discussed it back here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309235&highlight=S30V&page=2

But unfortunately, no, I wasn't doing repeatable testing at the time, due to an elbow injury.

I had a Sebenza in S30V that I had tested to 57 HRC. It was not good at edge holding - on par with my Cold Steel Voyagers in AUS 8A. Then I had the hardness bumped up to 60.5. That helped. Then I had a Krein regrind, and that really helped. The problem was, after I had $500 put into this knife, it still lagged in edge retention behind my Doziers in D2 at half the price. Ironically, the Buck 110 and Vanguard did better right out of the box. I got rid of the Sebenza (still have the Bucks), and use the Doziers.

I need to get back to more formal testing, my elbow is feeling better, and the Fallkniven's are calling! I've cut through 20 ft. of heavy cardboard with them, and they just needed a couple of passes on a ceramic to get back to hair trimming (above the skin) sharp.

As always, YMMV. There are a lot of people who have had really good results with S30V, I'm just not one of them...
 
Steels are funny. I've reprofiled my Military BG42, Manix S30V and Rukus S30V and sharpened and stropped them to the best edge I could get. The Manix outcuts the other two. This is just slicing paper, not the kind of rigorous testing that nozh does.

My Fallkniven PXL in 3G outcuts the Manix and responds to stropping very well. It's like it wants to be stropped. My Military BG42 seems to not like stropping. Takes much longer to have an effect. My S30V knives are in between, with the Manix responding to stropping much better than the Rukus, even though the steel is the same.

I'm a big fan of nozh, but I've long suspected that knives are individuals. And when Fallkniven chooses 3G for its top-end steel, when it has the choice of almost any of the best knife steels in the world, that says something to me that has borne fruit in my PXL.
 
I'm one of those people who have had terrific results with S30V. But, as has been mentioned by others, the heat treat is everything. Stick with a reputable manufacturer with a proven track record and you'll love the stuff.
 
Twindog said:
Steels are funny. I've reprofiled my Military BG42, Manix S30V and Rukus S30V and sharpened and stropped them to the best edge I could get. The Manix outcuts the other two. This is just slicing paper, not the kind of rigorous testing that nozh does.

My Fallkniven PXL in 3G outcuts the Manix and responds to stropping very well. It's like it wants to be stropped. My Military BG42 seems to not like stropping. Takes much longer to have an effect. My S30V knives are in between, with the Manix responding to stropping much better than the Rukus, even though the steel is the same.

I'm a big fan of nozh, but I've long suspected that knives are individuals. And when Fallkniven chooses 3G for its top-end steel, when it has the choice of almost any of the best knife steels in the world, that says something to me that has borne fruit in my PXL.
Click to expand...

Well, Fallkniven is choosing what is available in Japan - they can not do CPM S30V because some Seki manufacturer making knives for them - may be Hattory may be IC-Cut... So they choosed what is closer to CPM S30V by composition. ZDP189 from Hitachy will be much better (William and Henry choise BTW) - to me seems like Takefu did not done very good job even composition is same - results for similar steel from them SG2 were the same - below average.

Of course different people may "feel" about steels differently and my ideas of steels were way different before I started testing, I also thought that CPM 10V will be on top as well as 3G, but turns out after quite a bit of manila rope cutting that it is Dozier D2 and ZDP and SwampRat101 is on top not what I thought would be. I think pressure from PR is hard to overcome without real tests done by yourself.

I would love to see my tests dismissed by some other formal testing - honestly! For me it will be more important to find right answer then be right myself (I am not teenager (unfortunately)). But so far do not see any other doing formal testing :(

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Sigh. To compare two steels as you want to do, may be we all do, you have to have identical(or very close) blade geometry, identical sharpening angle and identical cutting sequences.

With your tests you don't have the first two. On the last, one could argue that twisting the blade can cause edge deformation, affecting cutting ability. Since we're all human, we all make errors, and especially when you cut prolonged time.

Look at your own test data. You start with one knife twice as sharp as the other and then conclude A is better steel than B...

One doesn't need to be a cook to tell the spoiled food U know ;)
 
Here we go again.

For the love of God he asked a simple question and I will answer it simply.

Michaelm466, those are both great steels providing you go with a reputable maker. Fallkniven makes excellent knives.

Here's a pic of one of my favorites: F1

fallknivenkydex.jpg
 
To clear up any misconceptions this thread may cause about the definition of formal (not trying to be a stickler, but I am a long-standing member of the AR engineers club) - from an engineering perspective, the only place I have heard of "formal testing" referred to is in software/hardware/electronics testing. In mechanical/industrial/civil engineering, formal refers to how the results are presented - formally or informally. A formal report is well defined by engineering academia - if any required part is missing, it is not a formal reprot or presentation.

For a test without any previous documentation or peer review, it would be critical in a formal presentation to explain what you want to test for, and provide some scientific documentation substantiating the theory or property your test is measuring. Without much thought, this may seem like an absurd requirement for an act as simple as cutting some rope. But like many other (or every other) seemingly simple occurence in this world, the deeper and deeper, and closer and closer you look at it, and the more and more you think about it, it becomes more and more complicated. I have never seen a good report with scientific theory (or testing for that matter) on something as simple as how edge geometry affects force required to cut manilla rope (& it would be easier to test it than to explain it scientifically). There's no money in analyzing every day cutting chores, but there is some info out there on industrial type cutting - more hard data and more thought has been devoted to blades that cut steel than there has been on blades that cut rope or thread.

descriptions of a formal report:

http://www.writing.engr.psu.edu/workbooks/reports.html
http://www.ecf.toronto.edu/~writing/handbook-lab.html
 
5.56 said:
Here we go again.

For the love of God he asked a simple question and I will answer it simply.

Michaelm466, those are both great steels providing you go with a reputable maker. Fallkniven makes excellent knives.

Here's a pic of one of my favorites: F1

fallknivenkydex.jpg
Click to expand...
Rob,
The F1 is the other fallkniven I was really looking at, I also saw that there will be a limited release of F1's in 3g as well, probably impossible for me to get a hold of. Where did you get your sheath? I like that style better than the squarish zytel it comes with.
 
Gator97 said:
Sigh. To compare two steels as you want to do, may be we all do, you have to have identical(or very close) blade geometry, identical sharpening angle and identical cutting sequences.

With your tests you don't have the first two. On the last, one could argue that twisting the blade can cause edge deformation, affecting cutting ability. Since we're all human, we all make errors, and especially when you cut prolonged time.

Look at your own test data. You start with one knife twice as sharp as the other and then conclude A is better steel than B...

One doesn't need to be a cook to tell the spoiled food U know ;)
Click to expand...

Dont forget hardness and edge stability. Edges chip and/or roll.
 
I have knives in both these steels and my experience with EDC-use of 3G and S30V is that the S30V is more prone to chipping and more difficult to put an edge on. Difference in re-grindability is fairly small but the chipping has kept me from seeing the edge retention of S30V since I re-grind chipped blades, even if they are still sharp.
 
Razorsharp244 said:
Dont forget hardness and edge stability. Edges chip and/or roll.
Click to expand...
Not sure I am following here :) Two steels can't be required to have identical hardness. Simply because of the different properties and elemental makeup.
Or I got something wrong?
 
we'll just wait for spyderco to do all the steels in the mule team format and then have at the testing
 
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